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...Many years ago it was all about just getting married very early, bearing kids and being a housewife. I would assume that if I during that time I had no child in my late 20's, I could have been labelled as a spinster and probably ignored. Going to college wasn't an option during that time.
We should distinguish between "modern" woman and "alternative" woman.
A modern woman, presumably, is a college-graduate with a thriving career, which she juggles with family (marriage and children). Her identity is simultaneously that of breadwinner and mother. She is independent of her husband for purposes of securing her livelihood or defining her accomplishments as a person, but she IS dependent on the family rubric as her principal responsibility, namely the raising of the next generation.
An "alternative" woman may or may not be career-driven, but she purposely eschews reproduction or parenting, on grounds of personal conviction. She disavows the social constructs that bind the present generation to the next, except perhaps for making her contribution as an artist, a musician, a philosopher, a mathematician and so forth.
The modern woman is one who has the opportunities to choose how she would like to live her life.
That can be homemaker or career woman and everything in between.
The modern woman has choices.
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The modern woman is one who has the opportunities to choose how she would like to live her life.
That can be homemaker or career woman and everything in between.
The modern woman has choices.
What you speak of is, was, and will be defined by one's ASSETS and MONEY in general. Living in multi-generational family was the norm at the beginning of the 20th century even among westerners. During 1950s the new trend was possible for much greater amount of population due to fact that constructing the house was easier. Mid-20th century was comparably a time when buying your own house/apartment was easiest.
Same goes for staying at home - it was a specific time in mid-20th century when people could afford it, and only certain social circles. Paid work makes no diference in there, because people in pre-industrial times generally engaged in exchange of goods and they even paid taxes in proportion of the crops they harvested. Generally, it was only the townsfolk and certain government occupations had their jobs being paid in money/coins. Those were the trends.
When you talk about choices, I guess you're talking about personal choices on people's lifestyles. No, it's not about the choice, it's about how those choices are used, that's what defines "modern" or "old-fashioned".
Like I said in my earlier post, there are two things to be noted - what people are "tolerant" in other people's behavior and what they actually exhibit themselves. To explain it further, one may tolerate someone's specific behavior because he/she thinks that it's their life, or they may not tolerate it. This is generally connected with one's political affiliation/leanings as well. But tolerance doesn't equal supporting or behaving that way in YOUR life. You may be okay with someone gambling (tolerance) and you may support gambling to be legalized in places where it is banned or to keep it legal in places where some folks want it banned (political stance), but you don't support that behavior in your private life or by your children. The way someone does things in their own life is what determines if someone is "modern" or "old-fashioned".
I don't know about you old folks, but here's the thing. Only media are the ones making "old fashioned women" as women who are stay-at-home. I'm in my 20s and nobody among my friends, employees or contacts equalizes those two. People are rather making distinction on how people live their own lives. Let's just say that "old-fashioned" is equalized with so-called "prudish" attitude on a number of personal choices in their private lives, while "modern" is equalized with pursuing self-interest and self-pleasure, either in partying with friends, loose sexual behavior, being involved in alcohol consumption and smoking weed, staying up until late hours, trashing yourself, etc.
Equalizing "modern" with college attendance or university diploma is another joke, so-called "prudish" behavior is over-represented among university graduates than in general audience.
Pay note that about half of Joes and Janes in a generation will graduate these days, while most of the rest of the crew will at least be enrolled in colleges at some point in their lives. It's just another, relatively new trend and it didn't exist 100 years ago, only very tiny fraction of folks either attended university or graduated back then.
Last edited by nald; 02-23-2014 at 10:58 PM..
Reason: grammar
"modern" is equalized with pursuing self-interest and self-pleasure, either in partying with friends, loose sexual behavior, being involved in alcohol consumption and smoking weed, staying up until late hours, trashing yourself, etc.
That doesn't sound like modern to me but rather impulsive, self-destroying behaviors. Those are dysfunctional individuals who either aren't really happy with themselves or probably had very poor role models.
You don't have to do drugs nor have sex with randoms to be considered modern.
What you speak of is, was, and will be defined by one's ASSETS and MONEY in general. Living in multi-generational family was the norm at the beginning of the 20th century even among westerners. During 1950s the new trend was possible for much greater amount of population due to fact that constructing the house was easier. Mid-20th century was comparably a time when buying your own house/apartment was easiest.
Same goes for staying at home - it was a specific time in mid-20th century when people could afford it, and only certain social circles. Paid work makes no diference in there, because people in pre-industrial times generally engaged in exchange of goods and they even paid taxes in proportion of the crops they harvested. Generally, it was only the townsfolk and certain government occupations had their jobs being paid in money/coins. Those were the trends.
When you talk about choices, I guess you're talking about personal choices on people's lifestyles. No, it's not about the choice, it's about how those choices are used, that's what defines "modern" or "old-fashioned".
Like I said in my earlier post, there are two things to be noted - what people are "tolerant" in other people's behavior and what they actually exhibit themselves. To explain it further, one may tolerate someone's specific behavior because he/she thinks that it's their life, or they may not tolerate it. This is generally connected with one's political affiliation/leanings as well. But tolerance doesn't equal supporting or behaving that way in YOUR life. You may be okay with someone gambling (tolerance) and you may support gambling to be legalized in places where it is banned or to keep it legal in places where some folks want it banned (political stance), but you don't support that behavior in your private life or by your children. The way someone does things in their own life is what determines if someone is "modern" or "old-fashioned".
I don't know about you old folks, but here's the thing. Only media are the ones making "old fashioned women" as women who are stay-at-home. I'm in my 20s and nobody among my friends, employees or contacts equalizes those two. People are rather making distinction on how people live their own lives. Let's just say that "old-fashioned" is equalized with so-called "prudish" attitude on a number of personal choices in their private lives, while "modern" is equalized with pursuing self-interest and self-pleasure, either in partying with friends, loose sexual behavior, being involved in alcohol consumption and smoking weed, staying up until late hours, trashing yourself, etc.
Equalizing "modern" with college attendance or university diploma is another joke, so-called "prudish" behavior is over-represented among university graduates than in general audience.
Pay note that about half of Joes and Janes in a generation will graduate these days, while most of the rest of the crew will at least be enrolled in colleges at some point in their lives. It's just another, relatively new trend and it didn't exist 100 years ago, only very tiny fraction of folks either attended university or graduated back then.
Dude, where are you from? You don't sound like you're from here, you sound like someone who doesn't understand US society or the West. And your post doesn't have any connection with the one you quoted and are responding to.
Why are you "equalizing" modern with partying, smoking weed, and trashing yourself? What kind of a word is "equalize", anyway? Get a grip, man. An excess of verbiage doesn't "equalize" an intelligent, insightful response.
What I'm getting from this thread is there are dudes who have a problem with "modern women", but they're not able to explain what their problem is. My guess is that their problem is themselves.
We should distinguish between "modern" woman and "alternative" woman.
A modern woman, presumably, is a college-graduate with a thriving career, which she juggles with family (marriage and children). Her identity is simultaneously that of breadwinner and mother. She is independent of her husband for purposes of securing her livelihood or defining her accomplishments as a person, but she IS dependent on the family rubric as her principal responsibility, namely the raising of the next generation.
An "alternative" woman may or may not be career-driven, but she purposely eschews reproduction or parenting, on grounds of personal conviction. She disavows the social constructs that bind the present generation to the next, except perhaps for making her contribution as an artist, a musician, a philosopher, a mathematician and so forth.
You presume incorrectly. Don't forget, there's a father present in the family rubric who shares the responsibility for raising the next generation. Don't write off fathers. Both parents have making a living and paying the bills as their principal responsibility, and raising their kids is right behind that. The days of the mom being the main person responsible for raising the kids are over in dual-career couples. That's not what being modern is about in the 21st Century.
Aren't you from somewhere else, too? Aren't you from around Eastern Europe? Time to get caught up on modern life in the US, man. You're a little behind the times, still.
Define modern woman. A just don't tell me that working is a trait of a modern woman, please.
Why not? For middle and upper-class women, that's one of the defining traits, whether you agree or not. Having the option to work, and a wide variety of career choices, and the right to respectful treatment on the job, was a hard-won advance in women's lives. Maybe not where you come from, but certainly where you live now.
The bolded, I think, describes modern women quite well.
Then you're hanging out with the wrong crowd. Those are really damaged women, not modern.
I haven't got the slightest idea how does having opportunities to work, have an education, vote, choose not to have kids and even buy a house relates to sleeping around, partying, smoking weed and trashing yourself?
Then you're hanging out with the wrong crowd. Those are really damaged women, not modern.
I haven't got the slightest idea how does having opportunities to work, have an education, vote, choose not to have kids and even buy a house relates to sleeping around, partying, smoking weed and trashing yourself?
Your guess is is good as mine. Nevertheless, the two are indeed linked.
Women ain't what they used to be, but then again, neither are men.
Gotta love the rose coloured glasses people wear to look "back in the days".
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