Dating Outside of Your League: Friend Zone and the Pump and Dump (wives, boyfriend)
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It's not always a case of the leagues IMO. I have never had casual sex or had sex before I was in a committed long term relationship so I have no experience with pump & dump. However I have friend-zoned plenty of guys and in all of the cases it had nothing to do with leagues and everything to do with what I was looking for in a relationship that the guy might have lacked. This summer I met a guy that was extremely attractive, to the point where he went anywhere and had ladies throwing themselves at him wanting to date him. He was that good looking. I knew he was attractive and he wasn't super cocky as one might assume, I liked him like a brother. He reminded me of a cousin I have and despite me knowing he was very attractive I had no romantic interest in him--I just did not feel chemistry with him. He liked me, thought I was beautiful and a "good girl". He stayed in the friend-zone and still is in the zone.
On the other hand one of my guy friends, has a gorgeous best friend, and he admitted she was, but from the moment he met her they clicked more like a bro and sis than like two people that could potentially date. He is very attractive too. I also knew plenty of attractive girls who got the P&D treatment from men that might not have been very attractive... These men were just wanting sex with a hot girl, not a hot girl to be their girlfriend...So no matter what "league" the girl would have been in(his or below, or above) he would not have been interested because he was not trying to have anything else than a ONS or a FWB.
Beyond that, I think the whole idea of leagues is silly and very limiting, but that's another topic. Truthfully in all the cases I can think of but a few, this theory simply does not hold.
What does "dating outside of their league" have to do with anything?
--> "loading participants"
That's about the only commentary I can come up with.
I agree that's a fair critique. I've always been skeptical of the notion of "leagues." I do believe social classes exist (though they are less defined in the U.S. than some countries). But "leagues" I've always viewed as one's way of rationalizing his or her lack of success with a certain type. Other than her use of that term, I think the OP makes a valid comparison.
I was just talking about this to a couple of younger gals I work with. Guys get put in the friend zone, and women get pumped and dumped when they make one grave mistake : dating outside of their league.
At the heart of it, the same thing happens to all loading participants. When a man hey friends zoned, he gives a woman what she wants (emotional intimacy) without getting what he needs (sex) .
When women get the P&D treatment, the opposite happens : the man gets what he wants (sex) and the woman gets left out in the cold in terms of what she wants (emotional intimacy).
what we have our hands is whole lot of people with an inflated view of their self worth on the market.
Comments?
My biggest problem with this is the last line: "What we have our hands is whole lot of people with an inflated view of their self worth on the market."
You seem to imply that human beings exist in a clearly defined hierarchy of value--i.e. a market--and that the way to avoid trouble is for people to know their place and stay in it. It is a crass, cold, cynical point of view that sees male/female relationships almost as predator/prey interactions.
In the case of pump and dump, this view seems to imply that women are at fault for some men's lying, manipulative behavior. This "league" stuff may mean a lot when you are in your late teens or early 20s. But believe, me, it will fit the realities of life a lot less neatly as you get older.
Has nothing to do with dating out of your league....
There is NO such thing as dating outside your league. I hate when people say crap like this because its ONLY a reflection of how you see yourself. While some people will be more attractive than others you can still date someone more attractive and have a great relationship. Especially if you are a guy then you really shouldn't worry too much as long as you have good hygiene and dress well.
Has nothing to do with dating out of your league....
There is NO such thing as dating outside your league. I hate when people say crap like this because its ONLY a reflection of how you see yourself. While some people will be more attractive than others you can still date someone more attractive and have a great relationship. Especially if you are a guy then you really shouldn't worry too much as long as you have good hygiene and dress well.
I agree in the sense that there is no real purely physical league. But social, cultural and economic differences as well as political differences can be serious barriers to dating.
My biggest problem with this is the last line: "What we have our hands is whole lot of people with an inflated view of their self worth on the market."
You seem to imply that human beings exist in a clearly defined hierarchy of value--i.e. a market--and that the way to avoid trouble is for people to know their place and stay in it. It is a crass, cold, cynical point of view that sees male/female relationships almost as predator/prey interactions.
In the case of pump and dump, this view seems to imply that women are at fault for some men's lying, manipulative behavior. This "league" stuff may mean a lot when you are in your late teens or early 20s. But believe, me, it will fit the realities of life a lot less neatly as you get older.
Exactly. It's beyond cold and IMO troubling to have that mindset that because you were pumped& dumped or friend-zoned it means that you had an inflated sense of self worth about "your place" in the market. As if there is some market that tells us where we fall and we better not go above or below it and expect favorable outcomes. When in reality there is no "real market" that exists, since most individuals have different ideas of what they find attractive and one girl that might be seen as a "6" could be a "10" to another man. This is why I've always found the number rating system and the "league" system amusing and pathetic, it implies that we all are making the same decisions and have the same ideas about who we find attractive and what standards one must "fall" into to be "dateable". The reality is that there is no "true" way to assess what your value is if you are basing it on an imaginary market where one person might find you more or less attractive than the next. And in term of leagues, it's another "imaginary" limit people have placed upon themselves where they believe they can only *get* certain people based on some idea they have about those people(i.e. I can only attract a man that looks this way because I'm not attractive enough to do better, or I can only attract an average looking woman because I don't make enough money to get anything better". It's limiting to me...
Has nothing to do with dating out of your league....
There is NO such thing as dating outside your league. I hate when people say crap like this because its ONLY a reflection of how you see yourself. While some people will be more attractive than others you can still date someone more attractive and have a great relationship. Especially if you are a guy then you really shouldn't worry too much as long as you have good hygiene and dress well.
Thank you so much, that is so true, and I wish people understood this, instead people place limits on their "options"(not even just with dating) and they are never able to truly get what they really wish they could get...If you feel like you are not worth a certain person due to some imaginary league or market value, than that is what is going to happen... And it's only a reflection of how bad you feel about yourself...
I honestly don't see what this has to do with being "out of your league" as opposed to people with different wants/needs.
I hardly doubt if every guy who has dumped a chick because they were different "leagues", or a girl didn't start dating a guy for the same reason.
I still want to who issues these league guidelines. As everyone is looking for different things.
I've given the whole "lets be friends" when I didn't like something about the guy, say after a date. Didn't really expect the guy to hang around, it's kind of the polite thing to say in some cases. I had girlfriends for emotional intimacy, never needed some guy for that.
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Getting P&D treatment it is a consequence of having sex very early in a relationship. Certainly people realize this?
It's possible that it may happen more often, but saying it like the way you are, like it's 100% going to always happen now and forever, isn't true.
I don't think being friend zoned by a woman means that he's trying to go out of his league, and a woman getting pump and dumped means that she's going out of her league. I think people like who they like, and the people that they sometimes like aren't interested in anything long-term with them and are either looking for emotional intimacy or a quick lay, and that hurts. It's a case of they really aren't that into you, but you're good and fulfilling what they want right now, until someone better comes along.
It starts to really get hurtful when the person who like that doesn't actually like you the way you like that person strings you along to make it look like they do like you so they can get what they want and you get nothing in return.
I've lived this a time or 2, and my eye is twitching lol.
A better question would be how to stop these hurtful behaviors?
What would be the answer?
Should it be that men should not be friends with women first and women should not have sex with men quickly? If that happened then no one would ever get together, right?
You would have arranged marriages and the woman would be submissive to the man and the man would be responsible for the household. There would be consequences legally for either party for deviating. That's what people did for thousands of years and it worked.
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As everyone is looking for different things.
