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I think a distinction could be made between a woman who will sleep with you on a first date, and a woman who is promiscuous and sleeps around. The reason I feel this way, is that I believe that pretty much any woman is willing to sleep with a man, as soon as they meet, provided he is the right man and the environment is right. Ive seen it happen dozens of times in my own life and have read similar accounts from many other people out there, pointing to this conclusion. Id meet a girl, she would tell me "Im not like that, I don't do anything on the first dates" but 90 minutes later begging me to come up to my place and be ultra aggressive in taking her clothes off. All a man has to do is create the right environment and provide her with the ability to push the responsibility for sex unto the man. She can then tell her friends "he swept me off my feet, there was nothing I could do!" and avoid the "sloot label" using this rationalization.
Quietly, every man hopes he has what it takes to make women want to have sex right away, because it is the only true proof of her sexual attraction towards you as a man. But this is a lot different from women who sleep around. There is a strong correlation when it comes to womans promiscuity and infidelity in a future marriage / relationship and this is why men instinctively avoid sloots.
I think you missed his point. What he said, is dont change yourself solely to become more attractive to women. Its unattractive and stinks of desperation. Everytime a man tries hard to impress women ,he signals to her that she is much better than him, but because he has xyz or does this or that, they can be equals. Its really a chump move and quality women run from clowns like that. If you want to become a better man, do it for the right reasons, not to impress some random chick.
If the woman hasn't met the guy before then they have no frame of reference. They just see a confident, outgoing, flirtatious guy. They don't know that he used to be shy and reserved and has been working on expanding his available range of behavior so that he can get a girlfriend and live his life to the fullest.
It's not about becoming a "better" man, it's about becoming a more attractive man. I know plenty of good men who are unwillingly alone because they don't have "game", for lack of a better word. Women are predictable, they respond to the same general stuff. I know they like to think they are all unique omnipotent snowflakes who wouldn't ever fall for a man who's being a certain way in their presence purely because they are attracted to her and wish to attract her, but they do, every single day. And women end up with men who are less then good, or who at the very least have a host of emotional/mental issues, purely because they are sexually/romantically attractive. Same applies to men too. Ideally one would be a good man/woman and also have game.
I've experimented with this a lot. When I am introverted and quiet, women give me looks but that's it, nothing happens. I still have self esteem and a generally grounded, unflappable nature which probably subconsciously shows in body language and piques their interest, but it doesn't translate into anything tangible. When I am talkative and friendly but neuter myself (aka treat them like you would treat someone you aren't sexually/romantically attracted to), nothing comes of it. When I flip the switch and be outgoing, charming, bold and flirtatious, women respond. Imagine that.
Both are "me". I can be introverted or extroverted. My natural state is introverted and quiet, but I know that is not the way to get women, so I developed my extroverted side, because who wants to go through life without women? You could be the highest quality guy in the world, but if you don't animate your body and interact with women in a attractive way and make bold moves at the right times, as a rule you're gunna end up alone. Such is the world we live in. There are exceptions of course. Women have it much easier in this regard because it's socially acceptable for them to be passive, and for the man to do the heavy lifting(aka to make the relationship happen). Still, women who are extroverted, flirtatious, and who go after what they want generally have way more success with men.
Self development that is purely for one's self is way deeper then surface level behavioral changes and women, at least for me. I do plenty of that too, and it's purely to ease suffering I created back in childhood when I didn't know any better, and to improve the quality of and explore my own consciousness. It doesn't have to be one or the other, you can do stuff purely for you, and stuff to benefit your surface level interactions with other people and your "life situation".
If the woman hasn't met the guy before then they have no frame of reference. They just see a confident, outgoing, flirtatious guy. They don't know that he used to be shy and reserved and has been working on expanding his available range of behavior so that he can get a girlfriend and live his life to the fullest.
It's not about becoming a "better" man, it's about becoming a more attractive man. I know plenty of good men who are unwillingly alone because they don't have "game", for lack of a better word. Women are predictable, they respond to the same general stuff. I know they like to think they are all unique omnipotent snowflakes who wouldn't ever fall for a man who's being a certain way in their presence purely because they are attracted to her and wish to attract her, but they do, every single day. And women end up with men who are less then good, or who at the very least have a host of emotional/mental issues, purely because they are sexually/romantically attractive. Same applies to men too. Ideally one would be a good man/woman and also have game.
I've experimented with this a lot. When I am introverted and quiet, women give me looks but that's it, nothing happens. I still have self esteem and a generally grounded, unflappable nature which probably subconsciously shows in body language and piques their interest, but it doesn't translate into anything tangible. When I am talkative and friendly but neuter myself (aka treat them like you would treat someone you aren't sexually/romantically attracted to), nothing comes of it. When I flip the switch and be outgoing, charming, bold and flirtatious, women respond. Imagine that.
Both are "me". I can be introverted or extroverted. My natural state is introverted and quiet, but I know that is not the way to get women, so I developed my extroverted side, because who wants to go through life without women? You could be the highest quality guy in the world, but if you don't animate your body and interact with women in a attractive way and make bold moves at the right times, as a rule you're gunna end up alone. Such is the world we live in. There are exceptions of course. Women have it much easier in this regard because it's socially acceptable for them to be passive, and for the man to do the heavy lifting(aka to make the relationship happen). Still, women who are extroverted, flirtatious, and who go after what they want generally have way more success with men.
Self development that is purely for one's self is way deeper then surface level behavioral changes and women, at least for me. I do plenty of that too, and it's purely to ease suffering I created back in childhood when I didn't know any better, and to improve the quality of and explore my own consciousness. It doesn't have to be one or the other, you can do stuff purely for you, and stuff to benefit your surface level interactions with other people and your "life situation".
I agree with a lot of what you say, but I strongly believe that changing your self in order to become more attractive to women and be able to impress them is a fools errand. You said something about what good is life without women? I think its fine. I would never advise any man to make being with women his primary purpose. Perhaps that is where our views disconnect. True success in the dating game, is ability to be yourself a 100% and knowing that you are more than good enough to be with any women you wish to approach. If there is improvement that needs to be made in you, do it for the right reasons, not to attract women. In the long run, your best self will be more attractive to women, but making it its primary purpose is a misstep. In general, women don't like guys whop put on a show and change for them, word by word In the way they want. They want men comfortable in their own skin, strong in who they are and proud of it.
Yeah, I didn't realize you were black. I know several of the black posters here (myself included) prefer to date interracially so if that's your thing too, I'd guess that being black is the bigger issue than your looks or personality. Nothing you can do about that though.
/thread.
M3Guy, I'm assuming you're goin after women that aren't black. Sorry to say, but the fact that you're black will be a huge impediment to your dating success. And as SLS said, unfortunately there isn't much you can do about it. In fact, I'm surprised you've gone this long without the issue surfacing in your own mind. (And by "issue" I don't mean it's an issue with you, but with those that dismiss you as a potential dating prospect because you're black).
I know there's going to be people jumping in right about now, claiming that we live in a 100% post-racial society where everyone is color blind, but the facts (as published by more than one major dating website) indicate otherwise.
Just be the best you can be, and talk to as many women as possible. It'll just have to be a numbers game for you =/
Last edited by ElysianEagle; 01-13-2015 at 09:51 AM..
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,974,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristo666
Yes, I do have a double standard. I feel that it is generally okay for men to sleep around, but not women. I am fine with this mindset and openly express this belief (even in real life).
The thing is that every man that I know that is successfully married ALSO feels this way. They just don't express it as much due to the social stigma that comes with denouncing feminist beliefs. However, they privately advise me to NEVER seriously date anyone that sleeps around.
Interestingly, my successfully married female friends say the same thing.
Are you successfully married? My guess is no.
Again, it all depends on what you're looking for. If you want a girl for a fun time, keep doing things the way you're doing them. If you want something serious with a woman that has values, avoid the ones that will sleep with you too easily.
Just what I've observed and experienced.
No, I'm not, and I'm guessing neither are you. I also doubt you know any successfully married women of any quality, or any men of quality, that believe in or promote such a double standard. You're FOS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anabasis X
I think a distinction could be made between a woman who will sleep with you on a first date, and a woman who is promiscuous and sleeps around. The reason I feel this way, is that I believe that pretty much any woman is willing to sleep with a man, as soon as they meet, provided he is the right man and the environment is right. Ive seen it happen dozens of times in my own life and have read similar accounts from many other people out there, pointing to this conclusion. Id meet a girl, she would tell me "Im not like that, I don't do anything on the first dates" but 90 minutes later begging me to come up to my place and be ultra aggressive in taking her clothes off. All a man has to do is create the right environment and provide her with the ability to push the responsibility for sex unto the man. She can then tell her friends "he swept me off my feet, there was nothing I could do!" and avoid the "sloot label" using this rationalization.
Quietly, every man hopes he has what it takes to make women want to have sex right away, because it is the only true proof of her sexual attraction towards you as a man. But this is a lot different from women who sleep around. There is a strong correlation when it comes to womans promiscuity and infidelity in a future marriage / relationship and this is why men instinctively avoid sloots.
OH PLEEASSSE. If they're willing to sleep with me quickly, they're willing sleep with others quickly. Your POV goes to the idiotic notion that guys want to have that "I'm special, she isn't like this" or "wouldn't do this" with other guys, just me.
Really? Are you still in your teens or twenties? That's just a naive, childish POV. Its a twisted wish. The I'M SPECIAL and UNLIKE OTHER GUYS fallacy.
M3Guy, I'm assuming you're goin after women that aren't black. Sorry to say, but the fact that you're black will be a huge impediment to your dating success. And as SLS said, unfortunately there isn't much you can do about it. In fact, I'm surprised you've gone this long without the issue surfacing in your own mind. (And by "issue" I don't mean it's an issue with you, but with those that dismiss you as a potential dating prospect because you're black).
I know there's going to be people jumping in right about now, claiming that we live in a 100% post-racial society where everyone is color blind, but the facts (as published by more than one major dating website) indicate otherwise.
Just be the best you can be, and talk to as many women as possible. It'll just have to be a numbers game for you =/
Yeah, the interracial dating aspect can certainly be challenging. I wonder why C-D Relationships attracts so many black interracial daters. lol I can only think of one or two at the moment who said that they prefer to date other black people. Anyway, I don't think we're going to get much (if any) PC protest here about the OP's race being a big part of the issue.
I have this situation were alot of people I know tell me that I'm a great looking guy, that I have a nice body, and I have a great personality. And they also tell me that I dress pretty cool too. But for some reason, it's hard for me to get dates. I can initiate convo sometimes, I can be totally cool when talking, and handle rejection just fine. I do think i have good personality. I dont come off desperate either. Im talking about getting dates with "average" girls. I don't go after the "model" types. Average is hot to me. Alot of the girls that I find hot, other guys don't. I just don't know what I am doing wrong still. Do you think women get intimidated by someone like me(I doubt it)? How many of you other guys have/had a problem like this?
Some guys rely solely on their looks and women get bored with men who have no personality and nothing really interesting to contribute to a conversation. By definition, a pretty boy is just a pretty face if he has nothing for show. Not saying you weren't being genuine with these women, but for some of us we really do look for kindness and a host of experiences and traits that make people well-rounded as individuals.
M3Guy, I'm assuming you're goin after women that aren't black. Sorry to say, but the fact that you're black will be a huge impediment to your dating success. And as SLS said, unfortunately there isn't much you can do about it. In fact, I'm surprised you've gone this long without the issue surfacing in your own mind. (And by "issue" I don't mean it's an issue with you, but with those that dismiss you as a potential dating prospect because you're black).
I know there's going to be people jumping in right about now, claiming that we live in a 100% post-racial society where everyone is color blind, but the facts (as published by more than one major dating website) indicate otherwise.
Just be the best you can be, and talk to as many women as possible. It'll just have to be a numbers game for you =/
You're preaching to the chior. I go after any race. Most of my previous GF were not black though...... But a small part of me does wish that I was programmed to only date in my race. It would make life easier.
No, I'm not, and I'm guessing neither are you. I also doubt you know any successfully married women of any quality, or any men of quality, that believe in or promote such a double standard. You're FOS.
I've seen many of your posts and, quite frankly, they are not believable (to put it in a nice way).
And, yes, ALL of the happily married men believe this. They're not out spitting vitriol about women, but they do believe that women should act a certain way. They married women that do act that way and they are happily married.
As I said previously, even the women believe this.
Any woman that I've ever met that is willing to sleep with me (or any guy) easily always has some kind of self-esteem issue and usually does not have her life together.
Quality women do not sleep with men early on. I would not marry a woman that puts out easily. Simple as that. If ALL remaining women put out easily, then I just won't get married. I'm okay with that.
Just out of curiosity, how old are you? Are you married?
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