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I can say my family upbringing has contributed to some troubles, but it shined through more in my 30s than my 20s or teens. My Dad went to prison when I was 8, was released when I was 13 or 14, and then disappeared from my life entirely at 15. Him being dead is one thing, but him being alive and within an hour drive of me, is what bugs me still today. How do you abandon your own kid?
My Mom remarried when I was 5 and they divorced when I was 10. At 43 (after 3 divorces), it was the first time my Mom ever truly lived on her own raising 2 kids. It was a struggle is putting it lightly. My Mom has filed bankruptcy 3 different times and by not knowing how to survive on her own on 1 paycheck, she ended up picking up a 20 year gambling habit. On top of all of this, my brother and Mom don't get along and really never have. That made my Mom feel bad so she went above and beyond to get my brother's approval. My Mom went into debt in the last 2 years to help out my brother and his poor decisions, only to have my brother just stop talking to her and she hasn't seen her grandkids in 18 months.
My Mom and my brother didn't get along, because in a lot of ways they're just alike. Very impulsive and don't think about the consequences, until it's too late. My brother and I used to be close, but now we don't talk at all. My Mom and I's relationship is better, but its only been better in the last year.
I say all of this to say that in many ways this effects how I date and pursue women. I shut down very easily with conflict, because there has always been conflict in my family. The way I learned to deal with it is that I just separated myself from it. About 3 years ago my Mom was gambling heavy again with money she didn't have. I'm a joint signer on her account and it was being overdrawn fairly often. This became embarrassing because I work for the bank that houses her account. So I was getting phone calls from employees about the overdraft abuse. Highly embarrassing situation for me. So I just cut off all contact with my Mom. We didn't talk for 6 months and I didn't lose any sleep either. So that's how I sadly resolve conflicts in my own relationships with women. When it becomes multiple conflicts at the same time, I tend to just shut down emotionally and get very quiet. Mainly due to the fact that that's how my life was growing up as a child, teenager, and young adult. There was always chaos with my Mom and brother, yet there was never any emotional energy leftover for them to address any issues I had going on.
I've felt that way in relationships and I end up feeling very alone. It's my biggest fear in relationships as well. Spending so much time trying to lick my partners wounds, yet my partner never licks my wounds. Also, when I feel that way, I feel even less connected to my partner, because I feel like she's focusing so much on her issues, that I can't even imagine weighing her down with anything that weighs heavy on my heart. So this just becomes a means to an end in my head and I feel sad.
I also feel bad, because I feel like a woman has never gotten a chance to really explore all of me and make me not feel ashamed to have days where I'm "in my feels" or just want to talk out what I'm feeling and have her hold me. To me, it's not a sign of weakness. I just want a woman to understand and sympathize that I've been through some things in life and I've had to spend most of my life trying to figure out how to fix it on my own, on top of, trying to fix all the crap that was going on in my family too. I'm not ashamed to say that I'm not close with my family as other people are. I can also say that, because many aspects of my family I wouldn't consider to be good examples that would benefit my life. It was mostly chaos.
So I always wonder when that women will come into my life and truly invest in me. As it's been the last couple of years, I've felt like I've been overly investing in them, and not getting much in return for myself.
May I ask what your therapists were like? Every therapist I've been to shouldn't have been given a license to practice. They'd ask me how something made me feel, and when I gave my answer, they'd say: "Don't lie. You know it's not what you felt" . In which case, I'd feign an apology, and tell the most outlandish lie I could come up with; then they'd actually believe me . Or they'd give really naive advice that not even a kindergarten baby would believe, like "Just tell the bully how you feel." (Are you fing kidding me?!) And that's if they actually humored me; far more often, they'd simply brush off or dismiss my requests for advice/guidance.
I could share more horror stories, but I'm sure you already figured out that I have a very low opinion of the talk therapy profession.
I've experienced some very useless therapists/counselors as well. And I've seen them actually be part of the problem with some people. For instance, if you get someone with a personality disorder like narcissism, who is excellent at image management, and a therapist who is not a real sharp critical thinker, but just a "how did that make you feel?" type (most, I think, of them)... You wind up with the patient going in there just looking for validation, and getting it, and then using that energy boost as fuel to go stomping around on other people. They tell the therapist their own side of a story where of course they are the hero, and nothing is their own fault, the therapist buys it hook, line, sinker, and gives them affirmation for their feelings of victimhood, and then they go out and spread that manure in the world.
So I don't know that a narcissist, or sociopath, or someone in that grouping of antisocial personality disorders, is going to benefit at all from therapy. And if a therapist spotted it and called them on anything, they'd likely just stop going.
For me on the other hand, the one therapist/counselor person in my whole life who actually helped somewhat (at least in giving me useful ideas to help me understand myself) was in high school. He was a salty old fellow from New Jersey who had heard enough BS to call it when he smelled it. He forced me to be accountable and honest to myself. He listened a lot, sure, but he also spoke, and when he spoke, he said things that mattered. Pretty much every other counselor I've had, has just nodded, kept me talking, and scribbled maybe on a notebook, never telling me what they were writing or why, or anything of any use. If all I need is someone to hear me, I have friends and journaling for that.
Does anyone have success stories in regards to people having successful relationships after being raised by controlling, abusive or neglectful parents? How have those types of situations affected adult relationships you have had? How have you overcome your childhood in order to have successful adult relationships?
I won't go through my full story as it wasn't a great childhood. I still have "issues" that are unresolved but I would challenge you to use the those bad experiences are learning lessons.
People always use their childhood as a crutch to justify how they treat other people. ie they were abused as children and continue the behavior and abuse their children. I would suggest the opposite and leverage those bad childhood experiences as a learning opportunity and do what you would have valued as a child.
"Controlling" isn't such a bad thing if the parents are doing so in a positive atmosphere. Abuse and neglect are two easily correctable and learnable things to overcome.
I've experienced some very useless therapists/counselors as well. And I've seen them actually be part of the problem with some people. For instance, if you get someone with a personality disorder like narcissism, who is excellent at image management, and a therapist who is not a real sharp critical thinker, but just a "how did that make you feel?" type (most, I think, of them)... You wind up with the patient going in there just looking for validation, and getting it, and then using that energy boost as fuel to go stomping around on other people. They tell the therapist their own side of a story where of course they are the hero, and nothing is their own fault, the therapist buys it hook, line, sinker, and gives them affirmation for their feelings of victimhood, and then they go out and spread that manure in the world.
Your example seems somewhat mild, similar to mine. Namely, a quack who doesn't do anything except say "How does that make you feel?" and "I see." A simple robot could do therapy like that. Of course, such a robot would violate Isaac Asimov's First Law of Robotics: "A robot must not harm a human, or through inaction, allow a human to be harmed."
My worst therapist example really takes the cake, I'd say. I was 13 at the time. She was a 19-year-old college intern, and attractive to boot (it matters; keep reading). To start with, she tried to pull a fast one on me by talking to me like I'm her friend, and denying all knowledge that it's a professional, unequal relationship. Which already set the precedent for me not to trust her.
Anyway, somewhere along the line, she decided to incorporate the "health benefits of touch" into her sessions with me. That amounted to her touching me on the arm (while I was wearing a T-shirt) and stuff like that. Now, being an 8th-grader who was already rejected by every girl in my class, getting touched by a cute 19-year-old gave me a "natural reaction", and I'm not talking about the "WTF!" reaction in my mind . Man oh man, it was so embarrassing, that all health benefits went right out the window. When I bolted away from her (and rightfully so!), she looked at me with a worried look in her eyes and wrote something in my chart. "Sensory issues", or "difficulty relating to people", or some similar crap. Even though she set me up! Or maybe she got a bonus from the clinic for every diagnosis she made, and was looking for ways to trump up a diagnosis.
I'm now 34, so that makes her 40. I hope she's alone in her ex-husband's house, with only cats to keep her company. Seriously, when dealing with a guy who just entered puberty and already had bad experiences with girls, she acted worse than a bull in a china shop. Especially if you consider that we had only a 6-year age difference; in which case, she should have known better that to get touchy-feely with a client.
Last edited by MillennialUrbanist; 12-12-2017 at 01:29 PM..
Sonic, now I understand better why I rep you so often and find myself agreeing with your posts, we have very similar backgrounds.
OP, I also come from a very messed up background. I could never know when I left for school if my dad might have busted up all our belongings during the day while I was away. Fast forward to today....I have had a very good relationship with the same man for 15 years, but it is very difficult at times. When I have a negative emotion (jealousy is a big one for me since my mom used to take me at an young age on her early a.m. spying trips to see what my dad was up to).... I’ve been lucky to find a partner who understands why I sometimes overreact, and for my part, I have to realize when I am being unreasonable in my reactions to situations. It’s a struggle, I won’t lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
Oh yeah. Let's see... Parents were busy and sort of emotionally absent a lot, I was an only child until age 9, and didn't have a normal childhood at all. I spent most of my time with grandparents and great-grandmother. Learned to be this strange, quiet, kid. Learned to read early.
My Dad was an alcoholic. I can remember him terrifying me often. He didn't love my Mom and tried to be gone as much as possible, partying with friends, traveling, cheating. My Mom was as good a parent as she knew how to be...sometimes that was wonderful, I remember late nights together working on a jigsaw puzzle or playing Chinese Checkers and drinking hot tea, I remember impromptu "adventure" road trips to unknown destinations, and hours long conversations. But she also was depressive, and when under the effects of depression and/or thyroid problems, would sleep a lot. I remember being alone a lot, and I remember when my brothers were born and were infants, I had to be their mother more than she was, because she was so stressed, depressed, and unavailable. I was, at 9, the one getting up in the middle of the night for feedings. I remember tears silently running down my face because the baby wouldn't stop crying and I didn't know what to do other than to hold him.
I don't believe, despite these things, that I am incapable of having healthy relationships. However, I have had to do the heavy lifting of digging around in my own head and processing my feelings and chasing down what bit of bad code written long ago was responsible for some irrational quirk of me. Most of this has been in the last couple of years since my divorce, because the marriage I was in, was to a very demanding narcissist who really didn't leave me any emotional energy for figuring myself out, I was too busy tending to him.
Things I've learned...
- I feel most emotionally safe and happy with much older people. I trust them more. A 10-20 year age gap is perfect. (Due, I guess, to great-grandma, grandparents, and great-aunt being the healthiest influences when I was a kid.)
- Because of the refrain of "such potential/we're so disappointed" that most adults told me constantly when I was a kid, I developed a horror of being expected to try things I might fail to exceed in, where people could possibly see me fail, and also a fear of disappointing the ones I love. To the point that if a loved one expresses that they're disappointed, I feel an immediate dimming of my connection with them, like I want to go away from them and not even be around them anymore. I advise my partners to avoid that word.
- As an adult child of an alcoholic and someone who has spent a lifetime learning to de-escalate crazy irrational people, I am very, VERY emotionally "flat" and calm. I'm also a conflict avoider of the highest magnitude. Anyone who wants a relationship with me needs to be ok with the expectation that even if they get angry, they must never shout or be violent, and that I expect us to never, ever "fight." We can disagree, and converse, but everyone had better stay calm.
- Apparently most people understand how to role-play. I never learned. As a child, I watched a friend play with Barbie dolls, pretending scenarios with them. I found that uncomfortably weird, incomprehensible. Now, I have a friend who explained why she likes porn, she says she imagines herself in place of the actors, and I cannot do that. And I am uncomfortable attempting any sort of role-play. I assume too much solitary time and not being socialized with other kids at an early age, maybe? I don't know. My brain just doesn't do that.
There is more, but this is enough to illustrate the kind of stuff I've had to dig up and process.
My ex was raised in a home where he was neglected and abused.
He had not the faintest clue how to be in a healthy relationship. He needed a cheerleader/therapist, not a partner. His most crippling issue was very poor insight. He was very blind to how abnormal his family dynamics were as a kid, and continued to be into adulthood. It was his normal.
This is very harsh. I would think that most people need a cheerleader at some point in a relationship.
I would say though, that if you are lucky enough to come from a non-dysfunctional family, it would really help to understand that your partner, who had no such advantages, is not going to behave the same way that you would about many - if not all - things.
My husband was very frustrated when we first started dating, as I had no idea how to do many things that 'normal' people did. He couldn't understand why a 30-odd year old had to be told XYZ. It was frustrating for both of us, actually. As I knew that I should be able to do XYZ but I had no idea how.
And then he met my mother. And that was that, lol.
He went to therapy with me, and my therapist explained my depression and PTSD to him in a way that I could not. Once we both had that understanding, our relationship was much, much better.
The Parenting forum is full of posts from parents who deny that upbringing has a lasting effect on their kids. There was thread called, "Are parents always to blame?", where the parents to not take any reasonability at all for how their kids turn out. They don't seem to realize that someone has to teach kids how to navigate this world, and it is much more difficult to do this at a later age.
It has only recently come to my attention that my upbringing might be part of why I struggle with maintaining long term relationships. I recently read an online blog that summed me up pretty well. 13 Signs you are a woman difficult to love or something similar. Not all of them are me, but a fair number on the list fit.
I am a woman that is difficult to love. I was not raised with affection so giving it to the level that men need it, is a struggle. I am told I am not compromising. I do not open up easily, nor let many people into my world. I am not interested in trying new things. I have also learned to not need anyone because I never had anyone that stuck around that I could count on. I am use to people coming and going. Which is something I struggle with in my current relationship. I want to believe he will stay forever but I have this thing of thinking he will leave that I can't shake. But how could I when everyone else has left... it is all I know
This is very harsh. I would think that most people need a cheerleader at some point in a relationship.
Sure we do. Sometimes.
Tabula Rasa wrote it to indicate that he needed a cheerleader INSTEAD of a partner. No spouse can stay in that role all the time, nor should they be expected to. It wasn't harsh at all.
Tabula Rasa wrote it to indicate that he needed a cheerleader INSTEAD of a partner. No spouse can stay in that role all the time, nor should they be expected to. It wasn't harsh at all.
Your opinion, as I have mine. We are both entitled to one.
I am a woman that is difficult to love. I was not raised with affection so giving it to the level that men need it, is a struggle. I am told I am not compromising. I do not open up easily, nor let many people into my world. I am not interested in trying new things. I have also learned to not need anyone because I never had anyone that stuck around that I could count on. I am use to people coming and going. Which is something I struggle with in my current relationship. I want to believe he will stay forever but I have this thing of thinking he will leave that I can't shake. But how could I when everyone else has left... it is all I know
If your description is accurate and isn't gender-specific, then that makes me a man difficult to love. I wasn't raised with affection, either, and for the most part, had to work hard to win my family's approval. My parents also argued a lot.
So when I met my first girlfriend, in college, I was dismayed but not surprised that she wasn't affectionate with me. Because I believed that, by and large, relationships aren't supposed to be pleasant or enjoyable; it's something you do to look normal in society's eyes. I harbor this belief even today, especially after seeing my friends settle down and almost entirely stop going out. In fact, when women showed interest in me this year, I turned them down and offered friendship in lieu of romance. One of them became a good friend, who I admire (in a platonic way).
One thing I find a bit unusual is that this friend shows more loyalty than my first girlfriend did. She returns my calls and texts quickly, or contacts me first. She finds fun places I had no idea existed, and texts me suggestions. By contrast, I had to initiate most calls with that girlfriend (texting didn't exist back then), and I had to do all the work in finding date venues. There's an easy explanation for this: I acted needy and submissive with my first girlfriend, and I don't act this way with my friend.
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. In which case, I'd feign an apology, and tell the most outlandish lie I could come up with; then they'd actually believe me 
ing kidding me?!) And that's if they actually humored me; far more often, they'd simply brush off or dismiss my requests for advice/guidance.
. Man oh man, it was so embarrassing, that all health benefits went right out the window. When I bolted away from her (and rightfully so!), she looked at me with a worried look in her eyes and wrote something in my chart. "Sensory issues", or "difficulty relating to people", or some similar crap. Even though she set me up! 
Or maybe she got a bonus from the clinic for every diagnosis she made, and was looking for ways to trump up a diagnosis. 
It wasn't harsh at all.
