Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This^^^^ isn't really disproving my initial point below.I am a woman. I know women. I don't need to google and read articles to know what women are like.
You know women because you are one? Fine but you do not how men see women, and because you are a woman you may be blinded to traits of your gender because you simply do not want them to be true. By the way I’ve been married for 25 years so yes I do know how to relate to a woman....at least my woman anyway
This^^^^ isn't really disproving my initial point below.I am a woman. I know women. I don't need to google and read articles to know what women are like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist
Wrong for the most part. You only described one-fourth of the big picture. Here's the rest of it.
Younger women vis-a-vis naturally desirable men: Quick and easy sex, with no requirements of gifts or other material benefits. Things generally remain lighthearted, noncommittal, and fun. Both parties enjoy being with each other.
Younger women vis-a-vis stable provider men: Women want nothing to do with these men, with a possible exception of friendship, if that.
Older women vis-a-vis naturally desirable men: Women prefer these men, but understand that settling down with them won't help attain a stable life. If a woman gets such a man to settle down with her, she treats him like gold.
Older women vis-a-vis stable provider men: Exactly what you described.
I don’t disagree with any of that, if we are addressing those females who are young and looking for hookups or just fun it changes everything. My posts were based on the premis of a woman looking for a long term relationship or marriage. Those looking for a hookup are far more likely to value physical attractiveness, true for either gender.
This^^^^ isn't really disproving my initial point below.I am a woman. I know women. I don't need to google and read articles to know what women are like.
I cracked up with this one. So obvious...yet so elusive to so many.
I cracked up with this one. So obvious...yet so elusive to so many.
It's so frustrating, isn't it? The whole "Women like X...I know because I'm a man...oh shut up, ladies...you can't know what you're thinking, only I can" bit?
It's frustrating...pretty much, it's ignoring fact in order to continue to be able to support one's own beliefs. There's an actual word for that but I can't remember what it is. It might be confirmation bias, is that right? Anyway, yeah. So illogical...and so frustrating because no matter what we say, the immediate go-to answer is, "Well, you can't know what you want...only a group of people who have never had your experiences can know what you want."
It's so frustrating, isn't it? The whole "Women like X...I know because I'm a man...oh shut up, ladies...you can't know what you're thinking, only I can" bit?
It's frustrating...pretty much, it's ignoring fact in order to continue to be able to support one's own beliefs. There's an actual word for that but I can't remember what it is. It might be confirmation bias, is that right? Anyway, yeah. So illogical...and so frustrating because no matter what we say, the immediate go-to answer is, "Well, you can't know what you want...only a group of people who have never had your experiences can know what you want."
Nope.
Gonna think slightly outside the box (sorry, like second time today I've given you a "hm, but actually?" response lol!) I sometimes think that women see sides of men that men don't show to one another, so men get this whole concept of what a man is "supposed" to be like, for instance unemotional right? But women who have had relationships with men know that men can be VERY emotional. They just have to be with someone they feel safe SHOWING that to.
Or at least...that's been my observation based on my experiences. If we might know stuff about men, that men don't necessarily think is true of men, maybe men know a thing or two about women, that women don't think is true about us.
I don't mind giving some guys credit for feeling that they've seen women do this or that many times and it seems a certain way to them. I can agree that all of us have our struggles in this game. I just really don't like absolutes, especially those artificially propped up by arguments about nature, biology, evolution. Like, "I'm right because science!" No, you're not...
I'm sure some men are stoic and don't display their emotions even with the women they're involved with. I'm sure some women are all about monied men giving them fancy gifts. Hell, there's a whole love language for "gifts" so, sure. Fine. Some are into that.
I guess I feel like, so maybe a dude's experience isn't invalid, but I'd be prepared to argue that it's not the whole story. Just don't be tellin' me what I "must be like" because "all women"...not unless you (guys) want to be subject to the same "all men" treatment. Eh?
Gonna think slightly outside the box (sorry, like second time today I've given you a "hm, but actually?" response lol!) I sometimes think that women see sides of men that men don't show to one another, so men get this whole concept of what a man is "supposed" to be like, for instance unemotional right? But women who have had relationships with men know that men can be VERY emotional. They just have to be with someone they feel safe SHOWING that to.
This, and men are doing themselves a disservice if they think emotions are mushy, weepy things. Anyone who's been with a man who's stuck in traffic, or who sees his ex with a new guy, or whose team wins or loses the big game has seen a guy be openly emotional.
This, and men are doing themselves a disservice if they think emotions are mushy, weepy things. Anyone who's been with a man who's stuck in traffic, or who sees his ex with a new guy, or whose team wins or loses the big game has seen a guy be openly emotional.
Well, actually, the reason I brought up the emotions thread was that the idea of the thread - as posted by a man - was that women dislike men to show emotion such as crying. But on the thread it was primarily men who piled on that it is uncool for men to do this, and even jeered at the thought...one man repeat posted mocking exaggerated images of in crying.
GUYS all did this.
While continuing to assert it was *women* who could not abide tears from a man.
When women insisted we are good with such emotions from men, we were told basically, nah, that's not true, obviously we women actually can't stand such a thing (paraphrasing here).
Uh, what?
Similar to what is happening here. It is not a question of us seeing things in each other. It is deliberately steamrolling over *actual input* in order to say: nah...you chicks are full of it. And using this to prove what women are actually thinking.
When women insisted we are good with such emotions from men, we were told basically, nah, that's not true, obviously we women actually can't stand such a thing (paraphrasing here).
..
Similar to what is happening here. It is not a question of us seeing things in each other. It is deliberately steamrolling over *actual input* in order to say: nah...you chicks are full of it. And using this to prove what women are actually thinking.
Your point is valid, but...
There's also a phrase: "Don't ask a fish how to catch a fish; ask a fisherman." After all, a fish doesn't want to be caught, plain and simple. Any more than a woman wants to give advice that will get her involved with an unattractive or undesirable man.
There's also a phrase: "Don't ask a fish how to catch a fish; ask a fisherman." After all, a fish doesn't want to be caught, plain and simple. Any more than a woman wants to give advice that will get her involved with an unattractive or undesirable man.
This is weird, do you really view relationships as the person not wanting to get caught, but a crafty predator has to come up with a way to entrap that person? Most people I know want each other. They don't have to be trapped and manipulated into seeing one another, against their better instincts to swim like hell in the opposite direction.
Are you currently in a relationship? Was this the mechanism?
As far as advice to get her involved with an unattractive man, that just doesn't work anyway. I see that attempt on here all the time. Attempts, usually, to scare a woman into dating men they don't like because otherwise, they're going to wake up 40 with dry eggs, OMG (like magic, they go to bed at 19 and wake up 40 and oddly infertile v. the general 40-year-old population). Or even when "older": same scaring attempts. Like the woman who wanted to break up with her older man...there were a good few snarks about how that's fine, just fiiiiiiiiiine, although she may wind up with someone even worse or, OMG...no..."old and alone." Plus shaming snarks...obviously she just needs to be entertained...obviously she doesn't see the person behind the excitement stage...blah blah. Yep. I see the fishermen at work. We all do.
I don't see women jumping for that advice. They never will. So that's not really a concern. OTOH, in the minority of cases where the woman does say "okay, forget it, I just want 'good enough and not in prison,' everybody's right, I should just be grateful to be with a dude I'm not attracted to," she will then be utterly crucified for "messing around in her youth and then settling for a boring male provider!" so....yeah....I can't see the Ugly Fisherman recommendation as really working well for anybody, in the end.
How about the Ugly Fisherman stop searching for mermaids and 'settle' for a real fish? There's another possibility here.
This is weird, do you really view relationships as the person not wanting to get caught, but a crafty predator has to come up with a way to entrap that person? Most people I know want each other. They don't have to be trapped and manipulated into seeing one another, against their better instincts to swim like hell in the opposite direction.
...
I don't see women jumping for that advice. They never will. So that's not really a concern. OTOH, in the minority of cases where the woman does say "okay, forget it, I just want 'good enough and not in prison,' everybody's right, I should just be grateful to be with a dude I'm not attracted to," she will then be utterly crucified for "messing around in her youth and then settling for a stable male provider!" so....yeah....I can't see the Ugly Fisherman recommendation as really working well for anybody, in the end.
The problem is that women are naturally attracted to only 20% of men. The other 80% must rely on "fisherman" tactics one way or another to create that attraction. Because I'm sure they want to meet a woman at the age when both partners still have their youthful looks and vigor, not when both are post-Wall and over the hill. It's not "entrapment"; it's simply doing what needs to be done to find a romantic partner at a young age. I suppose if you want to be politically correct, you could call it "showing confidence" or somesuch, but it's all basically the same thing.
Your second paragraph is interesting. If sounds like straight out of That Which We Do Not Speak Of. And if it keeps spreading at the current rate, I'm intrigued to find out what society's attitudes toward dating around and settling down will be 20 to 30 years from now.
P.S.: I edited your quote (in blue, 'cause red is for mods), for TOS's sake.
Last edited by MillennialUrbanist; 02-23-2018 at 11:31 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I see that attempt on here all the time. Attempts, usually, to scare a woman into dating men they don't like because otherwise, they're going to wake up 40 with dry eggs, OMG (like magic, they go to bed at 19 and wake up 40 and oddly infertile v. the general 40-year-old population). Or even when "older": same scaring attempts. Like the woman who wanted to break up with her older man...there were a good few snarks about how that's fine, just fiiiiiiiiiine, although she may wind up with someone even worse or, OMG...no..."old and alone." 
Plus shaming snarks...obviously she just needs to be entertained...obviously she doesn't see the person behind the excitement stage...blah blah. Yep. I see the fishermen at work. We all do.