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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,043,908 times
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I was thinking about beauty and attractiveness and figured there's way too much emphasis on WOMEN being attractive. Some one even said more women are bisexual because everyone naturally has a 'female attraction gene'...which is total psuedo-science. Male beauty is still marginalized imho, and kind of partly due to homophobia. Why is it weird for a man to call another man 'sexy' but not a woman to? Anyway, that's another topic altogether...
In nature, it is always the MALE who has to work to attract the mate. Now it is the male who goes out for females, so they have to be brightly coloured and stand out. Girls trying to stand out seems a bit senseless because many men just be looking to score. I think women's liberation and all that has actually put has back closer to our natural, primitive state, as more men realise it is more important for them to attract the girl, than just to be able to pick the girl of their dreams.
I think in today's society there is too much emphasis on female beauty which almost teases alot of men in a way and put more pressure on women. I was thinking how women have only started wearing makeup, more jewellry than men, and dressing up more, and how that is a Western invention of the post Industrial revolution era. This makes them kind of 'dolls' and sex objects, while men are like the 'consumers.' So much so that some women also believe females are somehow more beautiful than males and that is a universal fact. Women only wearing makeup is if anything an aberration from the rule.
As the years go by society has made women more and more sexy - even go back 50 years ago women seemed much 'plainer.' We've long been aware of how much women have been made 'sex objects' (in a way they always have been) but I'm really sick of how alot of women derive all their self esteem from being attractive. Men actually don't care as much about looks as some women believe - often women are the ones who are pickier. They too have been conditioned by society to be picky. I too accept this at face value but when I think a bit deeper I find this whole attitude rather strange.
Although I note as time has worn on that objectification is also starting to have an incredible impact on how men see themselves.
In general I completely agree with you Trimac, we as a society have become obsessed with the aesthetic to such a degree that it's changing how we view ourselves and how we "compete" in the world.
Did you happen to catch 60 Minutes last night? All that talk about Australians being the biggest users of botox in the world and that young girl that was busy telling the reporter that at 21 she's already old and needs to have botox now.
I think what I found interesting about the story on 60 Minutes is how it is having an impact on woman in terms of peer pressure and even older woman who would never consider having plastic surgery are discovering that they may be the only ones in their group of friends that haven't and that looking the oldest of the group can begin a huge inner struggle not to acquiese to the pack.
I confess I got up this morning and spent a good deal of time looking in the mirror trying to iron out some of the wrinkles on my forehead, contemplating injecting my face with a neurotoxin before I quick marched away from the mirror brushing my fringe back over my forehead and went and got myself a cawfee. All the while reminding myself that there are people that I love that love me just the way I am but even someone as steadfastly anti aesthetic as I am does struggle with the bombardment some days.
As the years go by society has made women more and more sexy - even go back 50 years ago women seemed much 'plainer.' We've long been aware of how much women have been made 'sex objects' (in a way they always have been) but I'm really sick of how alot of women derive all their self esteem from being attractive.
Much of what you said is wandering all over the place. Women place every bit as much emphasis on attractiveness as men. They just don't like to admit it. They also have much longer lists of "must haves", because they are better positioned to demand them.
However, the portion quoted above, is very true. Why this has happened, is not the "fault" of either sex but is how relationships have evolved under the influence of first film and then more dramatically, TV. Couples, especially those who intend to have families, are mutually attracted, more and more by the belief that they have what it takes to produce offspring who will succeed in the new paradigm.
Unfortunately, they are largely correct about this. Until there is either such a surplus of attractive people that they no longer command a premium in the market or genetic manipulation progresses to the point that everyone has these characteristics, this evolution will continue.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,043,908 times
Reputation: 11862
I did watch 60 minutes, and that 21 year old girl actually looked older than her age, ironically. When I hear about 14 year old's getting boob-jobs or young women getting botox I just shake my head. If they want to do it good for them, I guess it's just a more extreme form of wearing makeup and shaving, but I see this obsession with beauty as neurotic. When you think about your looks say 10 out of 16 hours of your waking life I consider that a kind of mental problem .
The thing about older women feeling peer pressure shows peer pressure never really leaves you. It kind of surprised me, actually. I thought most women would be over that kind of insecurity by that age.
Lol, I'm an ocker yob to the core ...not really, I'm not 'metro-sexual' but like anyone else I do feel certain pressures. I really hate how I feel those pressures though. It seems there are more and more of them. Which is partly why the idea of decamping to the bush sounds good right now. Not deluged with these currents of fashion...there are some places where VB will always be the drink of choice, and two-up on Saturday night at the pub is the entertainment highlight of the week!
Yes moon, I'm glad you're more secure than me in that respect. I hear the 'as long as you have people you love' from my mother enough! I wish I were more beautiful, but when it comes down to it, I don't want people gawking at me or admiring me too much.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,043,908 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotARedneck
Much of what you said is wandering all over the place. Women place every bit as much emphasis on attractiveness as men. They just don't like to admit it. They also have much longer lists of "must haves", because they are better positioned to demand them.
However, the portion quoted above, is very true. Why this has happened, is not the "fault" of either sex but is how relationships have evolved under the influence of first film and then more dramatically, TV. Couples, especially those who intend to have families, are mutually attracted, more and more by the belief that they have what it takes to produce offspring who will succeed in the new paradigm.
Unfortunately, they are largely correct about this. Until there is either such a surplus of attractive people that they no longer command a premium in the market or genetic manipulation progresses to the point that everyone has these characteristics, this evolution will continue.
I predict the latter within 50 years.
Yes, men do feel more pressure now too to look sharp. I think it's still easier to stand out as a man by dressing up and stuff because most men still don't care as much as women. Whereas, when every girl is covering her face in makeup and flaunting her body it's less easy for her to stand out. The beauty of artificiality and trying too hard sort of cheapens it. I mind sometimes it's kinda easy on the eye, but it is becoming rather common.
I did watch 60 minutes, and that 21 year old girl actually looked older than her age, ironically. When I hear about 14 year old's getting boob-jobs or young women getting botox I just shake my head. If they want to do it good for them, I guess it's just a more extreme form of wearing makeup and shaving, but I see this obsession with beauty as neurotic. When you think about your looks say 10 out of 16 hours of your waking life I consider that a kind of mental problem ..
Yes I agree but unfortunately that's the "currency" we're dealing with. It's all become about how it looks, and not necessarily about how it IS. We hold up celebrity and beauty like it's the be all and end all and it's true that the more aesthetically pleasing someone is the more likely they'll be "successful". I'd love to see the media present us with the very amazing things that ordinary people do more regularly and place accolades on people for what they do and contribute and less on how they look. Not sure we'll see it happen though. And yes it is a neurosis that's fed by some very clever marketing types that have creams and lotions and potions and corrections to sell. There's a lot of money to be made out of feeding people's insecurities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20
The thing about older women feeling peer pressure shows peer pressure never really leaves you. It kind of surprised me, actually. I thought most women would be over that kind of insecurity by that age.
Well I think perhaps that it is more of a dull roar than a full on cacophany as time wears on but I've spent a good deal of time discussing with older women how after a certain age they begin to feel invisible. I find that really sad because there is beauty to be found in everyone, as well as ugly and a whole gamut of human traits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20
Lol, I'm an ocker yob to the core ...not really, I'm not 'metro-sexual' but like anyone else I do feel certain pressures. I really hate how I feel those pressures though. It seems there are more and more of them. Which is partly why the idea of decamping to the bush sounds good right now. Not deluged with these currents of fashion...there are some places where VB will always be the drink of choice, and two-up on Saturday night at the pub is the entertainment highlight of the week!
Yeah, that can be a trap too though Trimac. There's still pressures to conform to the "norm" if you head off up bush. It may not be about how you look but it will be about fitting in with the herd. It won't be Paris runway fashion but there's still a "fashion" to adhere to. I think there's always pressures, it's about how you handle them and still stay true to yourself that is the true measure of the man (or woman). A difficult thing to negotiate although I must say that as I get older I find it so much easier because I'm less inclined to care too much about what people think of me. I suspect this is the way of it for a lot of people. (who says getting older is all bad? )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20
Yes moon, I'm glad you're more secure than me in that respect. I hear the 'as long as you have people you love' from my mother enough! I wish I were more beautiful, but when it comes down to it, I don't want people gawking at me or admiring me too much.
I'm the same! You know it's probably not so much that you should be wishing you were more beautiful and more about wishing you felt comfortable in your own skin. I'll let you in on a little secret. I was incredibly insecure about my looks when I was younger. AND I did some truly stupid things in the name of enhancing my "beauty" and to make myself more "appealing". BUT I also was lucky that I had older people around me (who sound like they're a bit like your Mum btw) to remind me about how special and unique and beautiful I am, (doesn't that sound like I've got my head stuck up my butt but it took quite a bit of therapy and work to be able to say it. ) AND how we're all gonna get old and die some day. I came to the realization that I didn't want to be on my death bed looking back over my life to discover I'd spent a greater portion of my time worrying about the shape of my butt or if my boobies were perky long enough or if enough people threw roses at my feet for being stunningly good looking. If I was going to be fetered by other people I'd much rather it was for my brain, my personality and for the kind of person I am than for how I look. As far as I can see, after all these years and struggles with how I look, the most liberating thing for me is I can now look in the mirror and just like me. I like me. AND really who gives a **** what other people think? You really only need one person in this world to love you and think you're beautiful, you might as well start with yourself.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,043,908 times
Reputation: 11862
^ Got any pics moonshadow (now or in the 80s or whatever) lol? I'm sure your attempts to look pretty back then might be ridiculous to the youth of today...kinda shows how ridiculous how fashion is. Whereas your core personality probably hasn't changed very much. Shows which is more enduring and permanent.
^ Got any pics moonshadow (now or in the 80s or whatever) lol? I'm sure your attempts to look pretty back then might be ridiculous to the youth of today...kinda shows how ridiculous how fashion is. Whereas your core personality probably hasn't changed very much. Shows which is more enduring and permanent.
OI! I'll have you know I was very trendy! All the kids at uni started wearing pretty much the same stuff when I was there in 2004 and calling it "retro".
It was all about BIG HAIR and boy did I have BIG HAIR!!!
You're so right though, I'm pretty much the same person.
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...not really, I'm not 'metro-sexual' but like anyone else I do feel certain pressures. I really hate how I feel those pressures though. It seems there are more and more of them. Which is partly why the idea of decamping to the bush sounds good right now. Not deluged with these currents of fashion...there are some places where VB will always be the drink of choice, and two-up on Saturday night at the pub is the entertainment highlight of the week!
