Does a woman's career matter to a man? (dating, attracted, children)
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I think men generally prefer not to be eclipsed by their girlfriend/wife when it comes to careers. The ones that don't mind are typically beta males.
I can't entirely refute this. On one hand I know it doesn't matter to ME, not even as much as it matters to a lot of women out there -- which of course flies in the face of all that Feminist clap-trap. If it really didn't matter then it wouldn't matter to women either; since it clearly does a great deal of the time, then it SHOULD matter to men.
In my book, a man should care about a woman's career because she's helping to bring home the bacon -- assuming they actually have a partnership, which is exceedingly rare in this life.
I've always seen careers outside the home as jobs involving money and I've always seen TRUE housewives as having a CAREER in homemaking.
If all they do is a little laundry, a few dishes and some dusting, plus cook a meal once or twice a day, then that's not much of a housewife and therefore not much of a career.
A REAL housewife, in my eyes:
- Plans and cooks meals and can actually cook like a gourmet. Sure, she may have to learn, but since this is her career area she should learn all she can about it.
- Finds ways to stretch the household funds to their absolute maximum, getting the most bang for the buck (and that takes some planning, it really does).
- Shops for the best bargains in clothing, to include not forcing her kids to look like the school poor-kids
- Shops for the best bargains in food, to include snipping and surfing for coupons and deals
- Helps save energy in the home by planning her use of power consumption, such as turning off lights when not in use; avoiding pre-heating the oven for overly long periods rather than when necessary; planning laundry for maximum effect and energy efficiency, etc.
- She may not mow the lawn (or she might) but she makes sure gas is topped off and available in cans for the weekend (yes, the garage and outdoors are part of the "house")
- She plans family events, whether staying in or getting out
All this is just a quick rattle-off of a few things I see as the difference between staying home because you don't have a job vs staying home because that IS your job. I see a TRUE housewife as a vital part of the family unit.
Since I see it that way, I figure it really doesn't matter who's doing it, man or woman, and therefore a woman's career is just as important as a man's.
About the only REAL problems arise if a man is made to feel self-conscious about the role reversal; and that comes from dissatisfied career women as often as not, who see themselves as breadwinners and begin to feel they should have MORE say in the way the family works -- the very thing they claimed to be escaping as "unfair" when Feminism was in bloom.
- Plans and cooks meals and can actually cook like a gourmet. Sure, she may have to learn, but since this is her career area she should learn all she can about it.
- Finds ways to stretch the household funds to their absolute maximum, getting the most bang for the buck (and that takes some planning, it really does).
- Shops for the best bargains in clothing, to include not forcing her kids to look like the school poor-kids
- Shops for the best bargains in food, to include snipping and surfing for coupons and deals
- Helps save energy in the home by planning her use of power consumption, such as turning off lights when not in use; avoiding pre-heating the oven for overly long periods rather than when necessary; planning laundry for maximum effect and energy efficiency, etc.
- She may not mow the lawn (or she might) but she makes sure gas is topped off and available in cans for the weekend (yes, the garage and outdoors are part of the "house")
- She plans family events, whether staying in or getting out
All this is just a quick rattle-off of a few things I see as the difference between staying home because you don't have a job vs staying home because that IS your job. I see a TRUE housewife as a vital part of the family unit.
Since I see it that way, I figure it really doesn't matter who's doing it, man or woman, and therefore a woman's career is just as important as a man's.
About the only REAL problems arise if a man is made to feel self-conscious about the role reversal; and that comes from dissatisfied career women as often as not, who see themselves as breadwinners and begin to feel they should have MORE say in the way the family works -- the very thing they claimed to be escaping as "unfair" when Feminism was in bloom.
Odd how that works, isn't it?
I agree (except for the gourmet part). The majority of "housewives" Ive know do exactly as you described. Ive known a very few that do the bare minimum and consider them lazy.
As far as being a gourmet chef, that is a career in itself. Keep in mind cooking is not the only thing a SAH does. You are actually involved in multiple careers and expecting one to be with a professional in the field is pushing it. Why should the one bringing in the bacon only need one career, but the one home must be a gourmet cook, financial advisor, accountant, nanny, teacher, maid. It would be like saying the one working outside the home also be a professional mechanic, landscaper and contractor.
Just my take, but when working women do make a man feel self conscious, often it is because he does not perform the hh duties that are expected of a woman if she stays home and she ends up doing 2 jobs. This has been the contention from articles and interviews Ive seen where women are the high end breadwinners. I have found this to be so in my relationships as well. I have always worked, making more than my wasbands, yet I had to do nearly all the hh duties including mowing. Even now, my bf is out of work temporarily , he has been staying with me, yet dosent seem to feel the need to do some light house keeping while he is there (unless I constantly stay on him about it ). If roles were reversed, I would have the house clean laundry done and super cooked when he got home.
I agree (except for the gourmet part). The majority of "housewives" Ive know do exactly as you described. Ive known a very few that do the bare minimum and consider them lazy.
As far as being a gourmet chef, that is a career in itself. Keep in mind cooking is not the only thing a SAH does. You are actually involved in multiple careers and expecting one to be with a professional in the field is pushing it. Why should the one bringing in the bacon only need one career, but the one home must be a gourmet cook, financial advisor, accountant, nanny, teacher, maid. It would be like saying the one working outside the home also be a professional mechanic, landscaper and contractor.
Just my take, but when working women do make a man feel self conscious, often it is because he does not perform the hh duties that are expected of a woman if she stays home and she ends up doing 2 jobs. This has been the contention from articles and interviews Ive seen where women are the high end breadwinners. I have found this to be so in my relationships as well. I have always worked, making more than my wasbands, yet I had to do nearly all the hh duties including mowing. Even now, my bf is out of work temporarily , he has been staying with me, yet dosent seem to feel the need to do some light house keeping while he is there (unless I constantly stay on him about it ). If roles were reversed, I would have the house clean laundry done and super cooked when he got home.
I might suggest that if the professional woman gets guys that can not do simple household chores and routine maintenance, that they do not know how to pick the right kind of guys. Has these Breadwinner woman looked to see if their potential SO has the skills and aptitude? Or do they allow the guy to select them?
If you want a guy that can handle routine household chores take a look at how they live and see if they do it now. Does the guy fix his own stuff? Does he know how to cook? Does he clean up where he lives? Do not complain if you have not done your homework in proper selection.
Personally a womans career matters not to me if she is not using it to bludgeon or to play control games.
I agree (except for the gourmet part). The majority of "housewives" Ive know do exactly as you described. Ive known a very few that do the bare minimum and consider them lazy.
As far as being a gourmet chef, that is a career in itself. Keep in mind cooking is not the only thing a SAH does. You are actually involved in multiple careers and expecting one to be with a professional in the field is pushing it. Why should the one bringing in the bacon only need one career, but the one home must be a gourmet cook, financial advisor, accountant, nanny, teacher, maid. It would be like saying the one working outside the home also be a professional mechanic, landscaper and contractor.
Just my take, but when working women do make a man feel self conscious, often it is because he does not perform the hh duties that are expected of a woman if she stays home and she ends up doing 2 jobs. This has been the contention from articles and interviews Ive seen where women are the high end breadwinners. I have found this to be so in my relationships as well. I have always worked, making more than my wasbands, yet I had to do nearly all the hh duties including mowing. Even now, my bf is out of work temporarily , he has been staying with me, yet dosent seem to feel the need to do some light house keeping while he is there (unless I constantly stay on him about it ). If roles were reversed, I would have the house clean laundry done and super cooked when he got home.
I'm going to reverse this, say that the majority of housewives I've known do the minimum while extolling the drain of the "maximum" on their poor, beleagured lives, and that the majority of women I've seen who begin to make their man feel self-conscious with regard to salary, whether SAH or just making less, tend to do it because they begin to feel they deserve more authority since they're bringing in the majority of the money.
And we're just gonna have to agree to disagree because we've seen different things on which we're basing our perspective.
As for the gourmet part, that was more to make a point, not saying a SAHM should be a literal gourmet. Last I checked I may use hyperbole as a method of illustration but I'm not an unrealistic, demanding cad.
My mention of cooking like a gourmet would be better illustrated as MORE than just "not burning water", seeking out new recipes, taking the time to improve any she already prepares, trying to keep both nutrition and variety present in the house... not just chicken and dumplings four nights a week, crockpot roast on the fifth with those mushy carrots and an utter failure to remove bay leaves, leftovers on the sixth and McDonalds on Sunday afternoons with fend-for-yourself as the Sunday evening ritual.
Of course, I'm likely to regret speaking illustratively because I'm going to get bombarded with stuff from women indignantly declaring that they NEVER do such a thing.
All I can say is my 8 month experience of being a 'career housewife' was utterly boring and very over rated. I found being a stay at home mother the most uninteresting thing I ever did.
I was of course heavily influenced by my Mother, who was a SAHM who revolved her life around my Father and her children and was insufferably needy. I vowed when I grew up I would never be like her and guess what, I'm not and I'm thankful.
Having my own paycheck and my own autonomy is a very important part of who I am.
I don't give a rats what other women do with their lives, I'm just glad I always had some kind of choice. We are products of our upbringing, our culture and the era.
It didn't matter to me before, but if I were seeking a new relationship again, it definitely would.
Being married to a "career" woman is tough. There have been times when the weekend just started...we're watching a good movie...enjoying each others company...it's midnight and...the phone rings. Next thing I know, her colleague picks her up, takes her to an airport to board a Lear Jet type plane, and she calls me the next day from Germany or some place. Stuff like this has lead to lots of stress and frustration in our relationship.
Plus, it's tough on the kids, too. Kids need their mom no matter how good their father is or how good their life, otherwise, may be. There is just no replacement for a mother that is always there. So, to answer the original question: Yes, a woman's career does matter (to me). I would prefer a woman who didn't have a career that consumes her.
Last edited by islandFever; 08-05-2010 at 09:52 AM..
I'm going to reverse this, say that the majority of housewives I've known do the minimum while extolling the drain of the "maximum" on their poor, beleagured lives, and that the majority of women I've seen who begin to make their man feel self-conscious with regard to salary, whether SAH or just making less, tend to do it because they begin to feel they deserve more authority since they're bringing in the majority of the money.
And we're just gonna have to agree to disagree because we've seen different things on which we're basing our perspective.
As for the gourmet part, that was more to make a point, not saying a SAHM should be a literal gourmet. Last I checked I may use hyperbole as a method of illustration but I'm not an unrealistic, demanding cad.
My mention of cooking like a gourmet would be better illustrated as MORE than just "not burning water", seeking out new recipes, taking the time to improve any she already prepares, trying to keep both nutrition and variety present in the house... not just chicken and dumplings four nights a week, crockpot roast on the fifth with those mushy carrots and an utter failure to remove bay leaves, leftovers on the sixth and McDonalds on Sunday afternoons with fend-for-yourself as the Sunday evening ritual.
Of course, I'm likely to regret speaking illustratively because I'm going to get bombarded with stuff from women indignantly declaring that they NEVER do such a thing.
Im sure it goes both ways. I get the impression from reading post concerning womens behavior, that the difference may lie in location. Keeping in mind I am in the bible thumping south where gender roles are for the most part 15 years behind the rest of the universe.
And this goes for Matts assessment of choosing guys who can preform simple task. Its not that they cant its that it is a "womans job" regardless of who is making the money. It dosent matter if they can or did it before, so many feels it is below them once they get in a relationship. And I will complain if I want to.
My nephew asked me if Id ever made chicken ding. Of course I hadnt and asked him how you make it. He said you put the chicken in the microwave and when it goes "ding" its done.
And this goes for Matts assessment of choosing guys who can preform simple task. Its not that they cant its that it is a "womans job" regardless of who is making the money. It dosent matter if they can or did it before, so many feels it is below them once they get in a relationship. And I will complain if I want to.
Hmm... "womans job" That sounds like someone who has a issue with status. If you pick status conscious people than do not be surprised when they are that way. I knew people that will not shop at discount stores because only the lower class does that. They will not clean a toilet because that is "scut work".
If your contention is guys hide their true nature until they get into a relationship, possibly true. I contend people do not have good criteria for selecting their SO, men and women. If a guy picks a "princess" he should not be unhappy with what he has. If a woman picks a "prince" than she must accept it also. People that can and will do things that are necessary to do are not as common. Pick accordingly.
I think in the end, regardless of gender or location, it simply comes down to whether the pair in question are a good match or not, whether they work well together, whether they put the partnership and kids ahead of their individual triumphs (not needs, because we all NEED certain things).
It boils down to whether they're realistic; and if they are then I have to ask both women and men alike: What the HELL would it matter who was making a higher salary, who had a "career"? The whole thing about getting married or making the decision to move in and live together is about the partnership.
Always, men will be able to do some things better than women and women will be able to do certain things better than a man, whether it's hoisting something very heavy for him or her ability to get a smaller arm behind the refrigerator to remove a fallen object for her.
Maybe my ability to see this sort of thing comes from the fact that I've always been of the mindset that I'm not afraid of the words "I don't know." For me, I don't know means that someone else is simply going to KNOW and BE CAPABLE OF things which are not part of my repertoire, not in my cognitive vernacular. And so what?
If my special person is better at planning certain things than I, I should acquiesce, let her take the lead. I should be there to support and participate.
In other areas where I have the advantage, she should do the same, acquiesce to my lead, be there to support me and participate in the activity.
The problem I see more and more is that everybody wants to be in charge, nobody wants to provide enough support to make things happen. Even the greatest leader in the world won't accomplish much if nobody is willing to follow; and trust me, the greatest leader in the world still asks advice and opinions rather than thinking they've got it all.
All I can say is my 8 month experience of being a 'career housewife' was utterly boring and very over rated. I found being a stay at home mother the most uninteresting thing I ever did.
I wish women wouldn't feel this way.
I was of course heavily influenced by my Mother, who was a SAHM who revolved her life around my Father and her children and was insufferably needy. I vowed when I grew up I would never be like her and guess what, I'm not and I'm thankful.
Having my own paycheck and my own autonomy is a very important part of who I am.
But to get that paycheck, your life is now centered around your work. I don't see the autonomy in that.
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