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The Bible says that there was no death in the world until Adam and Eve sinned. Evolution says that man came about from many years of creatures reproducing and dying.
The Bible says that thorns and thistles were a result of mans sin and fall. Evolution says that there were thorns and thistles long before man came on the scene.
The Bible says that Eve was made from Adam’s rib. Evolution says that woman evolved seperately from an ape like creature just like man did.
The Bible says that man was made from the dust of the ground. Evolution says that man evolved from an ape like creature.
The Bible says that everything was created in 6 days. Evolution says that everything came about from millions of years of evolution.
The Ten Commandments back up the creation story: Exodus 20: “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
What does Jesus say about the creation story? Mark 10:6 “But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female.'’ It sounds like Jesus accepted the creation story. What does Paul say about it? Romans 5: 12 “Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man” That’s Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45 “And so it is written, the first man Adam was made a living soul.”
You see if you remove the creation story from the Bible, you might as well get rid of the whole Bible because the whole Bible supports and is dependent on the Genesis creation story being true. If there is no literal creation story, there is no Adam, no original sin, no need for a second Adam, Jesus and no need for salvation. Your salvation testimony verifies that the creation story in the Bible is literal and true.
The Bible says that there was no death in the world until Adam and Eve sinned. Evolution says that man came about from many years of creatures reproducing and dying.
The Bible says that thorns and thistles were a result of mans sin and fall. Evolution says that there were thorns and thistles long before man came on the scene.
The Bible says that Eve was made from Adam’s rib. Evolution says that woman evolved seperately from an ape like creature just like man did.
The Bible says that man was made from the dust of the ground. Evolution says that man evolved from an ape like creature.
The Bible says that everything was created in 6 days. Evolution says that everything came about from millions of years of evolution.
. Your salvation testimony verifies that the creation story in the Bible is literal and true.
Regarding the first part of Genesis:
I view the first part of the book of Genesis as basically saying that God created everything. It should be noted that Genesis was written for the Hebrew mindset. We (westerners) are of the Greek mindset. By Greek I mean we follow the Greek way of thinking and looking at the world. We want precise answers, facts, figures order of occurrence and dates.
The Hebrew mindset is primarily interested in concepts, with facts and figures being secondary. What mattered to the Hebrews is that God created the Universe. The order and time of the events were not important to the Hebrew mind.
As I see it you run into problems applying Greek thinking to a Hebrew document. That is why the creation story does not make sense to the scientific mind. Of course we always must bear in mind that God is not limited to obey the laws of nature. So, if God wanted to create the universe in six, 24 hour days He could.
For me science gives us the How. Religion gives us the Why.
I view the first part of the book of Genesis as basically saying that God created everything. It should be noted that Genesis was written for the Hebrew mindset. We (westerners) are of the Greek mindset. By Greek I mean we follow the Greek way of thinking and looking at the world. We want precise answers, facts, figures order of occurrence and dates.
The Hebrew mindset is primarily interested in concepts, with facts and figures being secondary. What mattered to the Hebrews is that God created the Universe. The order and time of the events were not important to the Hebrew mind.
As I see it you run into problems applying Greek thinking to a Hebrew document. That is why the creation story does not make sense to the scientific mind. Of course we always must bear in mind that God is not limited to obey the laws of nature. So, if God wanted to create the universe in six, 24 hour days He could.
For me science gives us the How. Religion gives us the Why.
The Bible gives us how, not just why. If you want to hide behind a misunderstanding then that is fine, but it is not true what you are saying. That we can't understand it. I have shown how evolution is not supported by Jesus, and Paul, or anywhere in the Bible.
Adam was the first Adam and Jesus was the second Adam. There is no room for evolution anywhere in the Bible.
Genesis also talks about different things appearing on the earth in a specific sequence that is clearly incompatible with reality.
I think that it's more than a little patronizing to the people who believed and still believe in the factual claims of the bible to say that we can make sense of the bible because what it actually says is not to be taken seriously. While it is true that there are people who take the bible as some sort of general guidance, and don't take the factual claims seriously, why should anyone think that their views are more compatible with the text of the bible than the views of people who think that the words of the bible mean what they say? Is it just because we, as modern people, are too sophisticated to believe in biblical fairy tales?
If you're going to give both sides of the debate about the existence of god equal respect, the people who argue that there is a god, that his works are detailed accurately in the bible, and that the bible is in itself proof of the existence of god are entitled to have their claims understood and evaluated in the way that they understand and make them.
Of course, this means that those claims are both absurd and factually incorrect, but so be it.
To God " a minute is but a thousand years and a thousand years but a minute" - that explains it all - 6 billion years or 6 days...there is time line here that is humanly perceptable....We jump on this bit about the world being created in 6 days - that's the ancient primative human interpretation of time...to GOD time does not exist..but to us it does so we bicker about what is not real.
Ever since the advent of Darwin, geology and other various factors in the past couple hundred years, some Christians have been scrambling to make an ancient text (that did not contain Darwinian or factual Geologic data concerning the age of the Earth) fit the most recent findings of science. To do this, they must re-interpret the text of the Bible to mean the opposite of what it actually says.
One small example - highlighted by the above poster:
The first Creative Account has God creating things in the space of 6 days. To interpret what kind of day ("yom") the writer is using, one must use the context. The context points to a literal 24-hour day - no matter how unscientific this may be. Genesis makes lots of crazy claims that are just scientifically absurd, but it's wishful thinking to interpret them away as if they are not what the ancient writers meant.
I don't think the account in Genesis is factual - but I'm also not going to try to make it fit into modern scientific ideas, so that some believers may still claim that the Bible is true (when reinterpreted to their pleasure). If a religious believer feels there is a God, and that God is represented in the Bible, then so be it - stick by your God, I suppose. Anything else cheapens the image of God as presented in the Bible. Was God so weak that a literal 24-hour day was not enough time to create something? That is the usual sense I get from some Christians who use the "one day is a thousand years" argument. IN addition - even were one day a thousand years, this is still not enough time for the evolutionary and geologic ideas that the reinterpration is being made for (granted, the original interpretation was to combat the dashed hopes of an imminent return of Christ - but the point still remains).
God does not condone institutionalized stupidity - no matter what man made book it comes out of...any idiot, religious or not can look at a fossil and know that it could be 1200 year old or 12 million years old. I love the bible - new testitment mostly - cos it is the most hopeful and useful - older writings contain some great wisdom - but they also contain ancient Judiac bad behavour...so ...In my little mind - I can not imagine that Jesus the Christ would say - "Go to that book and believe every last little thing in it whether it makes logical sense or not" -
I did take the time a number of years ago to re-embrace Christianity - cos I wanted to know the truth - of how and why historically our society was effected and structured - I learned a lot in ancient scripture - but in the end - I took all the reference books and the Harpers Biblical dictionary and stuck them in the drawer...and heard the words of Christ - "the kingdom of heaven is within you...or if you want the truth (reality) it is contained naturally in YOU...so....I made it simple through this inspiration - my quest for the truth (reality) was a very alienating process...most people live in fantacy - and I do not believe that the message of Jesus was to dwell in the unreal..that is why this form of Christianity is an utter failture - cos people diverted their faith away from God into a book - and this book has NOT solved our problems...it's a good book - but YOU are more alive and intune and powerful than a book--- take the glory and respect yourself - the earth has no age..nor does eternity.
The Bible gives us how, not just why. If you want to hide behind a misunderstanding then that is fine, but it is not true what you are saying. That we can't understand it. I have shown how evolution is not supported by Jesus, and Paul, or anywhere in the Bible.
Adam was the first Adam and Jesus was the second Adam. There is no room for evolution anywhere in the Bible.
Oh well.. if Jesus (possibly nothing but a total construct as a simple go-between between the unapproachable almighty God figure and a more human (!) Jesus figure. All written without any errors in the details, natch! centuries later, btw...). Paul et al said it was, so then I guess it must have been, huh?
Question: what do you personally do with all the other contradictory things said [and even well-written...] by other, far more educated, Greek scholars? About Zeus, for instance?
It is Written!
Hardly The sole basis for belief amongst the cognoscenti of intellectuals. But of course now, if you are but a blindered and frightened sheeple-type, then go for it, by all means! Wouldn't want the sheep to be frightened, would we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach
To God "a minute is but a thousand years and a thousand years but a minute" - that explains it all - 6 billion years or 6 days...there is time line here that is humanly perceptable....We jump on this bit about the world being created in 6 days - that's the ancient primative human interpretation of time...to GOD time does not exist..but to us it does so we bicker about what is not real.
Oh pooh! You are highly selective about which parts you absolutely take as literal (NOah's Ark? Walking on water? Touch-healing? ). But then, God adjusted time, a concept that only came about when wee realized how old this earth really is. It's nothing but a later-day adjustment by Christian apologists, and you know it.
But so... let's just take a look-see here for a moment: your line of great reasoning goes like this: God, for no good reason other than to support a later-written book, adjusted time ("Praise Him! He works in mysterious ways! PTL!").
But then, for some completely unstated and/or irrational & illogical reasons, He subsequently re-adjusts it to the current and very stable rate of time passage? Where it has reliably remained so over all of known & recorded history.
Plus, when we now look, scientifically (i.e. logically, and without prior biases and with complete objectivity) we find many of the various geologica, cosmological & biological processes we know of today (as in: reproducible, observable & documented), producing results that are fully mimiced in retrieved artifacts, remnants and so on from well before the supposed Creation event? Que?
These documented chronological results "really seal the canned chicken", as they used to say, for most rational thinkers. Only the intellectually frightened, those who require a safe afterlife end-game, and a guidebook for their day-to-day ethical behavior (funny, when you look at the behavior of many avowed Crisitans ) but the tweeky adjusted-time scenario.
Say! But....
√ Isn't it you fundyists who rabidly deny Evolution because you note it was/is not observable back then? (It sure is today, btw...)
√ And yet, you fully accept that God diddled time back when no-one at all could have possibly observed it?
Two-faced rampant, rabid hypocrisy and fallibility on display, with lights and a half-time show!
A-Frickin'-may-zhin'
A Question though. No, let's make this a good one: QUESTION:
..........................WHY did God do this?
The boy seems to really be chronologically frick'd up, to my say of thinkin!
GOD, youz in trouble here, man. Let me know if I can help you figure some of this complicated up, n'Kay? After all, I do have them science degrees and you don't, man! The world's run by science now, so your role might be reduced a bit!
Well Good Then! I'll be waiting for your call! My cell phone no. is #@$%$%%^&**&%^**((*)
(Oh don't worry: He can figure it out!)
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A Passage in Time!
) but the tweeky adjusted-time scenario. 
