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it is unfortunate those who have the capacity to CHOOSE to understand the poster CHOOSE not to----just study developmental growth in humans----all of us at some part of our development are attracted to both sexes---the CHOICE is made
by us as to who we CHOSE to have sexual encounters with and who we CHOOSE--to develop an intimacy with----show me that yet undiscovered GAY gene present at birth
I never said that there was a gay gene. I did say that sexuality probably had elements of nature as well as nurture.
Here is a link to a study about the possibility that sexual orientation may be influenced/determined before birth. Let me reiterate. POSSIBILITY. I have heard speculation that this may be as a result of maternal hormones.
The point is that we just do not know. But the evidence seems to support that sexuality is hardwired into us in some way, not simply an off-the-cuff, I-guess-I-will-be-homosexual, type of decision
Ultimately it does not matter to me. I don't really care if you can completely change your sexuality on whim. I am mostly replying to solytaire and his/her contention that sexuality is a choice, and not an inherent characteristic similar to race (nuanced explanation of race understood, if not necessarily agreed with).
Look, if sexual orientation is a choice, then why is it so difficult to unchoose what you are? I mean, apparently some of you think it's a matter of snapping your fingers and *TADA*....no longer gay. I've yet to know any gay person for whom such a thing was a genuine possibility. Could a straight person snap their fingers and become gay? No. If you think you can, then you obviously have no grasp of the deeply complex emotions that are involved with sexual orientation.
Sexual orientation. I swear, I hate that phrase. It places the focus on sex. There is so much more to being gay Moderator cut: deleted just as there is more to being straight than a dude getting it on with a chick. (And if you're talking about a real chick, then that's just gross. Bestiality is fowl...ooops, I mean foul.) Likewise I detest the word "homosexual". It would be more accurate to call it "homoemotional". Any man in the world can [/mod] delted [/mod] another man, but that doesn't make him gay. What makes someone gay is the emotional makeup of the person....their psyche....the compass of their heart. Does it point to the same sex, or the opposite? Who do you feel most comfortable with and at "ease" with? Who do you relate to? Who makes you smile? Who warms your soul? Who makes you feel good about yourself? Who makes you feel peaceful? Those are all the things that determine your "sexual" orientation. (I want to gag typing that phrase.) It has nothing to do with what you do with your little soldier or patty's pantry.
Look, if sexual orientation is a choice, then why is it so difficult to unchoose what you are? I mean, apparently some of you think it's a matter of snapping your fingers and *TADA*....no longer gay. I've yet to know any gay person for whom such a thing was a genuine possibility. Could a straight person snap their fingers and become gay? No. If you think you can, then you obviously have no grasp of the deeply complex emotions that are involved with sexual orientation.
Sexual orientation. I swear, I hate that phrase. It places the focus on sex. There is so much more to being gay than two guys humping one another, just as there is more to being straight than a dude getting it on with a chick. (And if you're talking about a real chick, then that's just gross. Bestiality is fowl...ooops, I mean foul.) Likewise I detest the word "homosexual". It would be more accurate to call it "homoemotional". Any man in the world can hump another man, but that doesn't make him gay. What makes someone gay is the emotional makeup of the person....their psyche....the compass of their heart. Does it point to the same sex, or the opposite? Who do you feel most comfortable with and at "ease" with? Who do you relate to? Who makes you smile? Who warms your soul? Who makes you feel good about yourself? Who makes you feel peaceful? Those are all the things that determine your "sexual" orientation. (I want to gag typing that phrase.) It has nothing to do with what you do with your little soldier or patty's pantry.
I suppose in a sense the person could be right. If a straight person consciously decided to have homosexual sex, to prove some point or other, I think they could make themselves do it if they were sufficiently motivated. I think I read something by a pretty Radical feminist that seem to indicate a few of them tried lesbianism as a statement of independence from men rather than from any actual desire. Still what I gather is that the women who did this weren't very good at it and didn't "become lesbian." They just had lesbian sex for awhile for political reasons. Likewise I know of cultures where all men are expected to have, or try, homosexual sex in their teens. In a few this is because they want men to be virgins when they marry, in these they don't deem homosexual sex "real sex", but feel men can't really manage without some kind of sex. In others it's seen as maintaining masculine energy as they deem women to be a "weakening force."
Still sexual behavior and desire are not always the same. A homosexual can behave heterosexually, but I'm not sure that means their desire is changed.
Call pizza hut and order a pizza for all I care...I really believe that...bisexual, trisexual, straight, gay whatever...those are nothing more than social constructs to describe abstractions - what we choose to label each other is irrelevant...what matters is that we all choose who we want to be attracted to.
If you dont believe that you can control who you are attracted to then you must already be asexual.
That doesn't even make sense, did you think about your words before typing them? It's obviously quite the contrary. An asexual person could EASILY believe that it is a choice who one is attracted to, because they don't have any sexual attraction, therefore do not understand how very primal an urge sexuality is. Asexuals could easily believe that since their sexuality (or lack thereof) is easily controlled or quelled, that others' must be too, so to an asexual person, it stands to reason that it is easy for one to just "not be gay" and not live a "gay lifestyle". Whatever the heck that means, I keep seeing that phrase tossed around and I visualize a limp-wristed guy in pink fuzzy slippers and a jaunty hat, with his friends gathered around a piano, singing show-tunes...is that what you're talking about?!
Aside from gays, that for obvious reasons will defend their innate sexual preference, so let's not include them in this argument. And if we do then really, it is only true heteros that have no trouble understanding that homosexuality is NOT a choice. And this is because heterosexuals know full well that the urge to have sex with someone you are attracted to is completely undeniable, and it's absolutely unimaginable for them to engage in an intimate relations with someone of their own sex. Anyone who believes otherwise either has no sexual urges, as outlined above, or are in denial or confused as to their own sexuality. Or may even be bisexual; they know they since could easily swing both ways, that everyone else can too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire
Although i agree that sexuality is an extremely complicated choice. I believe it to be a choice never the less.
Regardless of what people preach, the human mind is capable of being conditioned to like anything...some people call it the pavlovian effect, others just call it brainwashing..The only way someone would be totally incapable of being conditioned to like one thing or another would be if they just decided to be completely closeminded and refuse to consider everything that they can choose to do in life...this isnt just speaking sexually, but this applies to virtually anything. Most people have mental walls that cause phobias and mental blocks etc. When those are removed, the brain can be conditioned to like anything.
Anyone who is honest and logical knows what I say makes sense to where it's pretty much inarguable. People with healthy sex drives- irregardless of who they're sexual encounters involve- know that the drive to have sex is much like the drive to eat or sleep. You gotta have it. And just like some people hate chocolate cake and love pizza, some people love men and are repulsed by women, but the difference is with chocolate cake, it's possible to acquire a taste for it. The same cannot be said for sexual attraction, and I dare any heterosexual man to say that there is any chance in hell he could ever, EVER "acquire" the taste for intimacy with another man...so no, there is NO amount of "conditioning" that would ever be enough to sway a straight man into "gaydom"! DUH!
OH but back to the OP- Unless it's a drug to prevent something like cerebral palsy or down syndrome, I think it's disturbing that anyone would want to interfere with how their child turns out. As long as they are healthy, that is what matters. Everyone is who they are, and unique in their own way for a reason, which is what makes the world an interesting place and how we learn and evolve.
Last edited by helios666; 08-25-2010 at 11:57 PM..
Reason: Forgot to refer to OP
i dont think so. i think alota guys "discover" they are gay after a bad marriage and a visit to SF. i think the let down that --sugar and spice and everything nice is not so--- is too much for some guys.
I wouldn't think a bad marriage would make a guy realize he's gay, unless the badness of his marriage relates to his gayness. At least I don't seem to recall an example of a man saying "I realized I was gay because being married to a woman wasn't as nice as I expected." (Curiously I've seen women say something like that, but usually in a more severe way. Like "I realized I was lesbian because I didn't care much that he cheated on me" or "I realized I was lesbian because once he started demanding I do humiliating things to please him I knew I wanted a different kind of relationship.") Or are you being humorous?
i dont think so. i think alota guys "discover" they are gay after a bad marriage and a visit to SF. i think the let down that --sugar and spice and everything nice is not so--- is too much for some guys.
Or they just happen to finally admit that they are when in fact the were all along?
Call pizza hut and order a pizza for all I care...I really believe that...bisexual, trisexual, straight, gay whatever...those are nothing more than social constructs to describe abstractions - what we choose to label each other is irrelevant...what matters is that we all choose who we want to be attracted to.
If you dont believe that you can control who you are attracted to then you must already be asexual.
Well good golley gee! I wish someone would have told my gay brother this when he was going through the turbulant teenage years. Feeling that no one understood him, longing to live a normal life, the numerous suicide attempts and cuts on his wrist becasue he thought he was a freak of nature. Thankfully my strict Catholic parents were awaken to realize that it is not a choice and they accepted him for who he was. I beliveve that is the only reason why he is still alive today.
Too bad you werent there 20 years ago to tell him to choose to be straight instead of the sexual divent that he is! That would have made things much easier on him and our entire family!!! Maybe you can go talk to him and all of the other gay people that I know that if they would just choose to be attracted to women, their lives would be so much better.
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Thanks for not deleting the whole post.
