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From a Christian perspective, it's becoming more & more like Christ. One can achieve this goal through: consistent Bible study, daily prayer, church attendance & participation, & involvement in ministry.
Is there a purpose to that? What is the goal, admission to heaven? then would that not make this a very self-serving, even selfish reason?
Is there a purpose to that? What is the goal, admission to heaven? then would that not make this a very self-serving, even selfish reason?
Yes. Christians believe we will live forever, with the Lord Jesus Christ. This world is only our temporary abode. Our ultimate home is in the presence of God. Our work now is in preparation for that homecoming.
Do you love someone deeply & long to please them? This is how we feel towards Jesus.
Yes. Christians believe we will live forever, with the Lord Jesus Christ. This world is only our temporary abode. Our ultimate home is in the presence of God. Our work now is in preparation for that homecoming.
Do you love someone deeply & long to please them? This is how we feel towards Jesus.
And THAT'S the problem. Christian means Christ-like (not liked by Christ). Open your heart and let God (or love if one does not believe in God) inside. Do that and one will find "truth". Going to cult like gatherings in some attempt to "prove yourself worthy to God" that you are above others that don't attend service is a lie against the human soul. Point, blank, period.
And THAT'S the problem. Christian means Christ-like (not liked by Christ). Open your heart and let God (or love if one does not believe in God) inside. Do that and one will find "truth". Going to cult like gatherings in some attempt to "prove yourself worthy to God" that you are above others that don't attend service is a lie against the human soul. Point, blank, period.
You are correct. One can never prove their worthiness to God. Even our best is not good enough. Only through acceptance of Jesus' redemptive work on the cross can one come to God.
Where I differ with you is that church attendance & participation is a bad thing. I've always enjoyed the fellowship with others, sharing thoughts & ideas about living the Christ-like life, singing hymns & songs of praise & worship together, serving in ministry together, etc. Many of my fellow church members have helped me mature in my walk with Christ. We also share in each others happiness & sorrow.
Last edited by Horn of ‘83; 09-10-2010 at 01:25 PM..
urbancharlotte, I wanted to comment on something else you said.
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Christian means Christ-like (not liked by Christ).
The idea of being "liked by Christ" is not unscriptural. Jesus said the disciples were His friends (John 15). Abraham & Moses were said to be friends of God. (2 Chron. 20: 7, Isa. 41: 8, Exodus 33).
In other words spiritual growth = indoctrination...Since I'm quite sure there are no gods, souls, spirits or any other intangibles, I think the words spiritual growth are only "catch words" that are meaningless, at least to me...Personal growth I accept, but I think spiritual growth is just another fantasy.
You're got some interesting ideas.......but let me add one caveat.
I don't believe spirtual growth could be called indoctrination since it comes from within you....it's not from an external source and cannot be measured by any standard I know of. I'm with you if you changed the word "spirtual growth" to "religious growth". Religion is absolutely nothing other than indoctrination....plain and simple. You sit every Sunday and someone tells you how it is....how it's going to be....and what you need to do. It all comes from an external source.
I agree that personal growth is all that really exists in the sense that the only thing we have control of is our own personal growth. We can't and shouldn't feel responsible for the choices others make. We all see things differently and that is as it should be. Personal growth however does affect everyone around you however in a positive way....so in that respect, personal growth is actually part of "group growth".
You are correct. One can never prove their worthiness to God. Even our best is not good enough.
That is NOT what I said. What I said was be "Christ-like" (not liked by Christ). I also said let God (or love for the non-believers) into your heart. There is no such thing as a "skyman" that plays judge to anyone. This is the nature of free will (something we all have). Trust me, if there was an omnipotent sky judge, we would not have the free will that we enjoy today. Like I stated before. "God" (to me) is the force behind existence (not some supernatural deity).
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Originally Posted by jimmiej
Only through acceptance of Jesus' redemptive work on the cross can one come to God.
Says your religion. Sorry, but there are REAL spiritual teachers in this world that make Christian "preacher men" look like the money hungry frauds they truly are.
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Originally Posted by jimmiej
Where I differ with you is that church attendance & participation is a bad thing. I've always enjoyed the fellowship with others, sharing thoughts & ideas about living the Christ-like life, singing hymns & songs of praise & worship together, serving in ministry together, etc. Many of my fellow church members have helped me mature in my walk with Christ. We also share in each others happiness & sorrow.
All of that fellowship is GREAT!!! However, it comes with an extra large dose of "you're saved and everyone else that is not doing what you are doing is doomed". Sorry, but such a mentality is quite arrogant.
Here is what I would like to see in a church. Find me one church that tells their sheeple about how a large number of atheists have found peace and love without the need (or desire) to please a "God". As true as that statement is, no Christian church will ever say such a thing. Why? Because they are in the business of Christianity. As a result, "Christ is the only way" is a slogan (not a spiritual truth). Know the difference.
Last edited by urbancharlotte; 09-11-2010 at 04:12 AM..
That is NOT what I said. What I said was be "Christ-like" (not liked by Christ). I also said let God (or love for the non-believers) into your heart. There is no such thing as a "skyman" that plays judge to anyone. This is the nature of free will (something we all have). Trust me, if there was an omnipotent sky judge, we would not have the free will that we enjoy today. Like I stated before. "God" (to me) is the force behind existence (not some supernatural deity).
You said:
Quote:
Going to cult like gatherings in some attempt to "prove yourself worthy to God" that you are above others that don't attend service is a lie against the human soul.
I agree with you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
Says your religion. Sorry, but there are REAL spiritual teachers in this world that make Christian "preacher men" look like the money hungry frauds they truly are.
The pastors I've had make very little $$$. You confuse televangelists with church pastors. Who are these REAL spiritual teachers you speak of?
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
All of that fellowship is GREAT!!! However, it comes with an extra large dose of "you're saved and everyone else that is not doing what you are doing is doomed". Sorry, but such a mentality is quite arrogant.
Salvation is open to all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
Here is what I would like to see in a church. Find me one church that tells their sheeple about how a large number of atheists have found peace and love without the need (or desire) to please a "God" that might not exists in the way that "we Christians" believe. As true as that statement is, no Christian church will ever say such a thing. Why? Because they are in the business of Christianity. As a result, "Christ is the only way" is a slogan (not a spiritual truth). Know the difference.
That is your opinion.
Last edited by Horn of ‘83; 09-11-2010 at 04:23 AM..
Is going to church necessary for spiritual growth? Well, that is a question that many people ask themselves. Most probably many will say yes, going to church is necessary for spiritual growth. I can answer this using another question. Is going to the gym necessary to getting fit and in shape?
One can join a gym and have access to the different cardio machines, free weights, and exercises classes. After all, one is paying a membership and getting services and/or amenities in return. However, one can also get in shape without joining a gym. One can have exercise equipment at home. One can also go jogging at parks, walk outdoors, or do jump rope at home. Well, same with spirituality. One can attend a church or join a church and contribute financially to the church. After all, there are expenses in running a church as well as pay the pastor his salary if he gets one. One can also benefit from either having small group meetings at homes. Or, one can also choose to read books, or the bible, or other religious/spiritual books at home or with friends. With the technology of the internet one can listen to or read spiritual websites and contribute to those sites financially as well.
My final point. I know there are those that will claim that by attending church one is connected with others and have fellowship with others in the church. Well, the people in the churches(not all of course) is one of the main reason that some people decide to not attend a church, or any churches period. Just like in the secular world, too many politics in the church as well as hypocrisy.
Your analogy is good.
My take on it is why would anybody want to continue to worship the hero gods of ancient primitive societies anyway if they had not been brainwashed as infants by their parents and other authority figures? All religion is major BS. Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Mormonism, Muslims, Rabbit's feet or lucky coins...one's about as foolish as another...and about as beneficial.
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However, it comes with an extra large dose of "you're saved and everyone else that is not doing what you are doing is doomed". Sorry, but such a mentality is quite arrogant.
