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Old 09-11-2010, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
15,400 posts, read 19,040,599 times
Reputation: 11043

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I've been frequenting this forum for about a month now. I am still appalled by the lack of respect and tolerance for the varying beliefs of different posters. Some of the judging, preaching and hateful posts are frankly quite revolting. Surely we all have some common ground and beliefs with which to open up a more fruitful dialogue.

(1) RESPECT...let's face it...I think we all wish to be respected; therefore can't we be a little more tolerant of different beliefs/lifestyles and think before posting about how "the other side" may feel about our comments.There are ways to disagree with people without insulting and judging them. I see this mainly from a FEW zealous posters who go overboard with the judging of other people.....if you want respect; then you MUST show your other posters respect also....otherwise they will respond in a "nasty" fashion because you insulted them, either directly or indirectly.

(2) TRUTH.....I think we all seek the truth, but there is a problem when Science uses a proven theory to make a point and some religious and other posters see this as an attack. Science has NO religious agenda and only seeks to increase mankind's knowledge base. Case in point is Evolution...which basically is....species change and adapt over time...you can quibble about the fine points of the theory(no theory is 100% accurate), but it is essentially correct. All of us arguing over where people came from will get us nowhere. Some religious people accept evolution and work it into their beliefs.....others dismiss it out of hand. None of us will convince any other posters who are firm in their beliefs on this theory...either pro or con; however if you expect your computer to function as you get on the internet....you need to at least believe in some of the tenents of the theory of Evolution....as we see bacteria evolve and change before our eyes. Was Darwin Wrong? @ National Geographic Magazine

(3) LOVE...We all want to be loved and hopefully most of you have the capacity to love other people. If we show a little more of this in our debates we will find more common ground between us, than issues where we disagree. The world would be a better place without the intolerance sometimes shown on this board.....remember it's simple: Treat others as you yourself wish to be treated.

(4) PEACE...Don't we all wish for peace in our lives and in our world(the forum too...LOL)...We are the key...it's up to all of us to try to get along....stop hating and wasting our energy/lives blaming each other for the planet's problems. As surely as we are all to blame....IF we all work together...maybe....just maybe....this world can be a better place for us and our descendants.

Surely there are other issues where the COMMON GROUND CAN BE FOUND......Anyone have any suggestions and/or comments about how we can all get along better and debate in a more civil fashion without insulting posters? And let's also acknowledge...WE ALL HAVE FEELINGS....so deliberately saying things that you know will offend/hurt people is simply not acceptable......unless you want schoolyard mentality debates, where we post more from emotional responses rather than rational posts.

GOD BLESS.....BLESSED BE or LOVE/PEACE......whatever makes "your boat float".
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:02 PM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,211,258 times
Reputation: 3933
Quote:
Originally Posted by PITTSTON2SARASOTA View Post

(1) RESPECT...
...is earned.

Quote:
(2) TRUTH...
...is a hard thing to swallow. Frequently it disproves religious beliefs, and many people are incapable of accepting that.

Quote:
(3) LOVE...
...is also earned.

Quote:
(4) PEACE...
...religious fanatics don't want peace. They want their god to ruthlessly smite us non-believers.

Quote:
WE ALL HAVE FEELINGS....
If someone is sensitive enough to get butthurt over anonymous comments on an internet discussion forum, they've got issues. I think that a forum like this is absolutely the place to be brutally honest with someone else, and tell them what you think about their ideas. Otherwise, they go through life with everyone being polite to them, afraid to hurt their feelings, and not being told how ridiculous they are.

I say, grow a pair or don't post on the internet.
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Southern California
1,839 posts, read 1,712,065 times
Reputation: 212
To the OP: Very nice and thoughtful post, so thank you for sharing.

Now you know the reason why there's an old saying out there that goes something like this: "It is never good to mix religion or politics in polite company."

Some want to come here and vent, so as a good Christian maybe turn the other cheek. Changing human nature is a hard nut to crack and most people are happy as clams being the way they are... you know those who just delight in being the thorn in your side.

Well, take heart and don't sweat it. Pretty much what you wrote is seen here every few months by those posters who are appalled at what they read... I know I felt the same way when I started posting, but after awhile we learn whom to avoid. Blessings.
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:56 PM
 
6,637 posts, read 3,859,320 times
Reputation: 654
Quote:
Originally Posted by PITTSTON2SARASOTA View Post
I've been frequenting this forum for about a month now. I am still appalled by the lack of respect and tolerance for the varying beliefs of different posters. Some of the judging, preaching and hateful posts are frankly quite revolting. Surely we all have some common ground and beliefs with which to open up a more fruitful dialogue.

(1) RESPECT...let's face it...I think we all wish to be respected; therefore can't we be a little more tolerant of different beliefs/lifestyles and think before posting about how "the other side" may feel about our comments.There are ways to disagree with people without insulting and judging them. I see this mainly from a FEW zealous posters who go overboard with the judging of other people.....if you want respect; then you MUST show your other posters respect also....otherwise they will respond in a "nasty" fashion because you insulted them, either directly or indirectly.

(2) TRUTH.....I think we all seek the truth, but there is a problem when Science uses a proven theory to make a point and some religious and other posters see this as an attack. Science has NO religious agenda and only seeks to increase mankind's knowledge base. Case in point is Evolution...which basically is....species change and adapt over time...you can quibble about the fine points of the theory(no theory is 100% accurate), but it is essentially correct. All of us arguing over where people came from will get us nowhere. Some religious people accept evolution and work it into their beliefs.....others dismiss it out of hand. None of us will convince any other posters who are firm in their beliefs on this theory...either pro or con; however if you expect your computer to function as you get on the internet....you need to at least believe in some of the tenents of the theory of Evolution....as we see bacteria evolve and change before our eyes. Was Darwin Wrong? @ National Geographic Magazine

(3) LOVE...We all want to be loved and hopefully most of you have the capacity to love other people. If we show a little more of this in our debates we will find more common ground between us, than issues where we disagree. The world would be a better place without the intolerance sometimes shown on this board.....remember it's simple: Treat others as you yourself wish to be treated.

(4) PEACE...Don't we all wish for peace in our lives and in our world(the forum too...LOL)...We are the key...it's up to all of us to try to get along....stop hating and wasting our energy/lives blaming each other for the planet's problems. As surely as we are all to blame....IF we all work together...maybe....just maybe....this world can be a better place for us and our descendants.

Surely there are other issues where the COMMON GROUND CAN BE FOUND......Anyone have any suggestions and/or comments about how we can all get along better and debate in a more civil fashion without insulting posters? And let's also acknowledge...WE ALL HAVE FEELINGS....so deliberately saying things that you know will offend/hurt people is simply not acceptable......unless you want schoolyard mentality debates, where we post more from emotional responses rather than rational posts.

GOD BLESS.....BLESSED BE or LOVE/PEACE......whatever makes "your boat float".
What better on 9/11 than a, "Why Can't We all Just Get Along and Show Each Other Love & Respect?" post?!

It's a very nice concept PITT2SARA, but not likely to happen.

It seems people can not simply state their opinion without getting "mean and nasty". Trying to "call out" the bias, intolerance, insults, mocking, and even obvious outright hatred...will be a lesson in futility.

It's basically...we don't like "X", "Y", or "Z"...we feel it is some kind of "bad" thing, or some kind of "threat"...and we are going to attack it...and if you don't like that, "too bad". MOF...it is most common to see the taking of exception...that someone took exception! And I'm not talking about "joking around", or "snarky jest"...I'm talking about "down and dirty", "below the belt", as "insulting as can be"...TRYING to hurt and mock. And willing to specifically devote THOUSANDS OF HOURS to it!

The trouble is...evil begets evil. When you ask for peace, love, tolerance, care, and concern...and get the opposite...you tend to decide the only thing left to do is fight back...and even the coolest/nicest/sweetest can get sucked into a vicious exchange. To achieve your goal...Peace, love, and respect...has to be given to ALL...ALL the time! Because, if those things have to be "earned"...nobody would EVER get them except by/from people that know them. And who/what determines at what point you've "done enough" to "earn" respect, love, and peaceful interaction? Why not put that forth to everyone, as standard?

It's a shame, I know. But if you can figure out a real, workable, effective, solution to intolerance and hate...you'll be the first.

Nevertheless...Bless You, in your endeavor to try to invoke Peace.
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Old 09-11-2010, 11:09 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 12,698,087 times
Reputation: 3975
What Common Ground; Can Be Found, Between Religious And Non-Religious Posters?

I would guess that the majority are at least quasi-human. Most have some sort of a pulse, some actually have hair and teeth. The non-religious have a different sense of humor, it sometimes gets them in trouble with moderators.
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Old 09-11-2010, 11:37 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,236,543 times
Reputation: 6657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
If someone is sensitive enough to get butthurt over anonymous comments on an internet discussion forum, they've got issues. I think that a forum like this is absolutely the place to be brutally honest with someone else, and tell them what you think about their ideas. Otherwise, they go through life with everyone being polite to them, afraid to hurt their feelings, and not being told how ridiculous they are.

I say, grow a pair or don't post on the internet.
The Internet doesn't have to be some kind of Fight-Club. Sheesh. Most forums I go on are relatively polite. Besides which telling someone they're ridiculous often just hardens their position.

Anyway to the OP I think a difficulty is much of the common ground we have would not be relevant to this section. I think I've found that some people I find really obnoxious here are kind of fun on the music section or what not. There are several atheist musicians I kind of like. Likewise there are some borderline Fundamentalists in Bluegrass and Celtic whose music I nevertheless like. I imagine instrumental music is in particular an equalizer. From Vivaldi to the Ventures your ideology or beliefs don't usually effect your enjoyment. (Vivaldi was a Catholic priest, but I know there are atheists who like his instrumental stuff okay) Literature is more divisive, but I imagine many of my favorite science fiction books are popular with even the most militant of atheists. Also I think some of my favorite religious, inspirational, or even humor books might be liked by at least one of the Fundamentalists here. (Well maybe not, my Christian reading is mostly Catholic. I liked the one book I tried by Stephen Lawhead though)

It might work even better to get more basic than even that. Eating and sleeping are things we all do. I imagine whether one here likes or dislikes watermelon does not relate to religion, creed, or metaphysical position. Likewise whether you prefer a firm or soft mattress to sleep on. To get specific again I think in general mathematics does not necessarily say anything about religion. Debates on set-theory and incompleteness have involved religion, but the more basic stuff doesn't. I think believers and non-believers would generally have common ground on fractals, decimals, spheres, cubes, perfect numbers, prime numbers, and so forth.
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Old 09-12-2010, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,842 posts, read 9,648,146 times
Reputation: 2391
Main problem being that there are so many theists who consider even the most mundane criticism of their beliefs as an attack, mocking or ridicule that must be stamped out. Whilst they consider it perfectly acceptable to proclaim that their particular theological beliefs are the only ones that are true (and in doing so are insulting, mocking and ridiculing the theological beliefs of other religions), they just can't accept it when someone says the same about their beliefs.

For myself, I see no reason whatsoever to "respect" what someone believes. I respect their right to hold the belief. I am under no obligation to respect the belief they hold. Again, I call on the master......

"The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.
True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge. Did Darrow, in the course of his dreadful bombardment of Bryan, drop a few shells, incidentally, into measurably cleaner camps? Then let the garrisons of those camps look to their defenses. They are free to shoot back. But they can't disarm their enemy."

-- H L Mencken,
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:06 AM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,637,349 times
Reputation: 591
There is discrimination in this world and slavery and slaughter and starvation. Governments repress their people; millions are trapped in poverty while the nation grows rich and wealth is lavished on armaments everywhere. These are differing evils, but they are the common works of man. They reflect the imperfection of human justice, the inadequacy of human compassion, our lack of sensibility towards the suffering of our fellows. But we can perhaps remember, even if only for a time, that those who live with us are our brothers; that they share with us the same short moment of life; that they seek, as we do, nothing but the chance to live out their lives in purpose and happiness, winning what satisfaction and fulfillment they can.
Surely, this bond of common faith, this bond of common goal, can begin to teach us something. Surely, we can learn, at least, to look at those around us as fellow men. And surely we can begin to work a little harder to bind up the wounds among us and to become in our own hearts brothers and countrymen once again. - Robert Kennedy
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:10 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,211,258 times
Reputation: 3933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
The Internet doesn't have to be some kind of Fight-Club. Sheesh. Most forums I go on are relatively polite. Besides which telling someone they're ridiculous often just hardens their position.
I didn't say it has to be a fight club. I said you might as well not come 'out here' and post if you have feelings that are easily hurt. I said this is a good place to speak plainly. It doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it, but you don't have to worry that speaking your mind will get you popped in the mouth, or fired, or anything like that.
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Old 09-12-2010, 03:16 AM
 
Location: Florida
18,290 posts, read 18,533,242 times
Reputation: 20965
basically what Thomas said...if we all were on one of the other many forums there would probably be much common ground
Here, there's only one main subject and it's one widely recognized to be one of contention.
But a lot of the forums involve arguing rather than mere discussion....after all, total agreement is boring.If a statement is made and everybody agrees, where is there to go from there ?
And when neither side can be proved right....there can't even be an accepted conclusion.
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