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Anyway, on this discussion, first, I'm pretty sure it wasn't me who was having this discussion because at this point I don't think this was about the Temple. I'm pretty sure Jesus was talking about His second coming.
Now the following is simply my opinion, I have not studied this or consulted any other commentaries or sources....this was just me seeing this thread, these posts quoted and picking up my Bible.
But, to me, this is rather trivial. When I read this, what I see is Jesus describing the things that would happen, and that the generation that sees those things will be the generation in which His return occurs. In other words , paraphrasing verse 33 and 34 from my NIV here in my lap, Jesus is saying, "When you see all these things, I'm on my way. This generation won't be gone til all these things have happened." As in, they will occur in one generation. Has anyone looked at any real scholars opinion on this?
ROFL....the above is your answer to "this generation" The Gr. Genea=generation is used all over the NT and always means the generation Jesus was speaking to...this cannot be refuted or the meaning changed because it doesn't fit your futurist paradigm. Futurists are all alike...they take most or some of Jesus words "literally" only when it suits their futurist position to do so.....words like "this generation" take on entirely new meanings when put into the hands of futurists. FYI...Jesus was speaking to a specific people at a specific time about a specific judgment that was to come against them and only them....this is why futurists prophectic agenda will fail over and over and over and over again. As the years go by the phantasmagoric speculation about what's going to happen gets more and more ridiculous The simple truth is you don't believe what Jesus said anymore than any other escapist futurist looking for the same physical kingdom to come to earth just like the Jews did back in the first century and we all know what happened to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
If you are suggesting that we 'literalists' actually believe what we read and are slow to add or take anything away from it......yes, please do keep that in mind. It's the same way we approach God's Word.
I believe literalists only take the words literally that suit them and don't literally want to ever admit that they may be wrong.
I've listed several versus below where "literal" statements were made by Jesus himself to His apostles and literal statements made by His apostles to others regarding His return to the 1st century generation...did you "literally" believe any of these statements?
Mt 23:36 "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation." What were the "all these things" to come upon the generation Jesus was speaking to?
Mt 24:34 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." What were the "all things" that were to take place before the generation Jesus was speaking to would die?
Mark 13:30 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." What were the "all things" that were to take place before the generation Jesus was speaking to would die?
Luke 11:49-51 "For this reason also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute,
so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.' What was charged against the generation Jesus was speaking to and what was the judgment?
Luke 21:32 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place." What were the "all things" that were to take place before the generation He was speaking to would die?
Rom 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. When did God crush Satan under his feet?
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, When did the things that Jesus said must soon take place, take place?
Rev 3:11 "I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown." When did Jesus come quickly?
Rev 22:6-7 And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.
"And behold, I am coming quickly Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." When did Jesus come quickly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
I believe everything Jesus said. But He did not say He would return in the 1st century.
He didn't?? It sure looks like He said it to me...and you obviously don't believe Him? Why not?
One thing that always bothered me when I was in my early teens and attending church was the fact that we've been waiting two thousand years for an event to take place that the Bible seemed to suggest was supposed to happen within a human generation of the life of Jesus. Doesn't that fact by itself give any of you doubts that maybe it's just never going to happen? If civilization keeps on going for a few hundred more years and no one has seen hide nor hair of Jesus don't you think it will reach a point when people will just stop believing that the second coming is a reality? I wish I could think of the passage in the Bible that I referred to but I seem to remember that Jesus said to a group of people that they would never taste death because his return would be very soon. Maybe one of you could clarify that specific point because I don't remember the exact words but I'm curious about it and I'm wondering if this two thousand year wait doesn't shake your faith just a little.
God is not slow in respect to his promise, as some people think he is, we should be thankful he has given us time to repent.
One thing that always bothered me when I was in my early teens and attending church was the fact that we've been waiting two thousand years for an event to take place that the Bible seemed to suggest was supposed to happen within a human generation of the life of Jesus. Doesn't that fact by itself give any of you doubts that maybe it's just never going to happen?
Second coming? That can only happen if there were in fact a 'first' coming other than something out of a book of urban legends, fables, and superstitions.
don't you think it will reach a point when people will just stop believing that the second coming is a reality?
I'm 75 years old...born Sept. 26, 1934. My earliest recollection of traveling in a car brings back memories of roadside signs and billboards declaring, "Jesus Is Coming Soon!" There are fewer now but in the southern U S they can still be seen. As far as what I think will happen...in one of Nostradamus' quatrains he says something about the years just before the end being without god. I think in his wisdom he foresaw a day when mankind would be smart enough to stop paying the church just because the church wants to be paid.
Anyway...more folks are catching on to the religion gimmick every day. I believe that within a century there wll be many more who are agnostic or atheist than will believe.
God is not slow in respect to his promise, as some people think he is, we should be thankful he has given us time to repent.
Ah but then endless generations go by, all scared and repentant as all get-out, with absolutely nothing to show, or gain, from it!
Pretty much sounds like just another empty promise to ensure continued fear and tithing to me....
(BTW, I happened on the Jimmy Swaggert TV show the other morning, and he told his ardent (and paying) flock that the time of Jesus' second coming "is upon us! Pray for your salvation, and for this ministry, now!" [before it happens and you're left without a ticket].
God is not slow in respect to his promise, as some people think he is, we should be thankful he has given us time to repent.
Thanks for your assumptions, BT. But... in order to truly repent, you first have to accept Jesus into your life, to believe in the entirety of the Christian religion, and then pray for salvation from a mythical figure.
Since I know, in my own heart, that this is all a ruse, I have NOTHING to repent. Yes, I have made some mistakes in my youth, but I learned from them. On my own, within my own life's spiritual and ethical beliefs, not from a pre-determined Church list of what they consider to be a sin. I do not need to be judged by someone else, not the least of which is a mythical supernatural diety.
I'm not ARROGANT as you'd likely assert; I know I'm only a man, and that I may have done a few "colorful" things. That's entirely MY business. I also do not assume such unlikely and unprovable fairytale stuff as Christianity mandates.
But the Church? Now THERE'S true arrogance. And hubris and greed, which often accompany arrogance.
I see one of my ancient threads has been resurrected so to speak. Actually when I was in High School one of the first rock bands I was in I named "The Second Coming". Unfortunately we didn't come down from the sky in a blaze of glory or become famous. But such is life.
All Of Creation Is Most Anxious For This Event To Take Place !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy
One thing that always bothered me when I was in my early teens and attending church was the fact that we've been waiting two thousand years for an event to take place that the Bible seemed to suggest was supposed to happen within a human generation of the life of Jesus. Doesn't that fact by itself give any of you doubts that maybe it's just never going to happen? If civilization keeps on going for a few hundred more years and no one has seen hide nor hair of Jesus don't you think it will reach a point when people will just stop believing that the second coming is a reality? I wish I could think of the passage in the Bible that I referred to but I seem to remember that Jesus said to a group of people that they would never taste death because his return would be very soon. Maybe one of you could clarify that specific point because I don't remember the exact words but I'm curious about it and I'm wondering if this two thousand year wait doesn't shake your faith just a little.
Greetings,
The World Religions (Not Just Christians) Appear To Be Anticipating The
Arrival Of A Tremendous Global Spiritial Event..... Each Religion Has It's
Own Particular Version Of A Mighty "Saviors" Arrival Or An Epic & Inevitable
"Last Battle" To Be Fought Between Good And Evil.....
There Are Many Christians Whom Sincerely Believe That The Long
Awaited Arrival Of The "Lord Of Lords And King Of Kings".... "Jesus
Christ" Upon This Fallen World Shall Occur Very Soon.....
Patience Now..... And Keep Watch..... "No Man Knows The Day Or
Hour"..... And Yet The "Signs Of The Times" Shall Provide An
Indication Of "The Grand Event"..... May We Be totally Prepared !
Thank You / L.F.
Last edited by L.Funk; 10-10-2009 at 03:54 PM..
Reason: Paragraph Structure / Thanks / M.F.
Thanks for your assumptions, BT. But... in order to truly repent, you first have to accept Jesus into your life, to believe in the entirety of the Christian religion, and then pray for salvation from a mythical figure.
Since I know, in my own heart, that this is all a ruse, I have NOTHING to repent. Yes, I have made some mistakes in my youth, but I learned from them. On my own, within my own life's spiritual and ethical beliefs, not from a pre-determined Church list of what they consider to be a sin. I do not need to be judged by someone else, not the least of which is a mythical supernatural diety.
I'm not ARROGANT as you'd likely assert; I know I'm only a man, and that I may have done a few "colorful" things. That's entirely MY business. I also do not assume such unlikely and unprovable fairytale stuff as Christianity mandates.
But the Church? Now THERE'S true arrogance. And hubris and greed, which often accompany arrogance.
yes we do need to accept Jesus, I agree, but we also need to see things in God's eyes and not our own. That would be accurate knowledge from the Bible and not man-made ideas. If i offended you in some way it was not meant to be that way. anyway if you don't believe then that's yours to keep!
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The Gr. Genea=generation is used all over the NT and always means the generation Jesus was speaking to...this cannot be refuted or the meaning changed because it doesn't fit your futurist paradigm. Futurists are all alike...they take most or some of Jesus words "literally" only when it suits their futurist position to do so.....words like "this generation" take on entirely new meanings when put into the hands of futurists. FYI...Jesus was speaking to a specific people at a specific time about a specific judgment that was to come against them and only them....this is why futurists prophectic agenda will fail over and over and over and over again. As the years go by the phantasmagoric speculation about what's going to happen gets more and more ridiculous
The simple truth is you don't believe what Jesus said anymore than any other escapist futurist looking for the same physical kingdom to come to earth just like the Jews did back in the first century and we all know what happened to them.
'Cause it ain't ever coming?
