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Unread 01-23-2011, 10:06 AM
 
16,311 posts, read 12,108,398 times
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Default Appeal to consequences…..

………. or “you’re going to hell” or “you’ll be sorry” if you don’t get right with god.

How frequently this is the typical response from believers as to why non-believers must get to know god or jesus or some other fairy tale character. For some the mind is so shutdown to reason that this is as far it ever goes. “You’re going to hell” end of discussion.

Debating or attempting to debate many believers, one is met with an onslaught of “you are going to hell” or other emotional outbursts as the reason one must subscribe to the fallacy of a god, and of course it must be their god. When that concept is challenged, i.e. asking for any reasoning as to why failing to believe in a god will cause one to gain entry into hell, the response often an appeal to fear, void of any rational at all.

Believers follow the concept that having faith without evidence is a good thing, and that being more certain of their beliefs than the evidence warrants, is somehow a virtue. How does one become so irrational?

Response from non-believers is frequently a challenge of reason, to look at the evidence, which is this case is an absence of evidence, and a challenge to the believer to examine their reason for belief and see if they can actually justify (with rational thought) why they believe. Atheist do not use the appeal to consequences argument, but merely challenge the believer to think, only to be told I am going to hell, or that I am going to be sorry I didn’t subscribe to a fantasy as a fact. A convincing argument, don’t ya think……………….
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Unread 01-23-2011, 10:15 AM
 
1,806 posts, read 875,146 times
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who really cares who goes to hell or not?
we as a people have got to decide what are we going to do or not do to help our ailing planet and it's rapidly deteriorating eco systems.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,621 posts, read 5,847,333 times
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Default "God will see you now, my child. but... (ahem..) leave that flashlight behind though; we don't want to scare God!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
who really cares who goes to hell or not?
we as a people have got to decide what are we going to do or not do to help our ailing planet and it's rapidly deteriorating eco systems.
Apparently a lot of people care. It's the Church's ultimate scare tactic, a sort of philosophical "monster under the bed" that many will claim to have actually seen (which also stinks of a conspiracy...), but you'd better not go looking for it (you know, to confirm or deny it..) else it grabs you and drags you in there with it. Much better to stay permanently afraid, non?

Continuing the metaphor, we atheists are the fatherly types who want to take the frightened"youngster" (or congregation member) firmly by the hand and, with our flashlight ("science") get down and show that quivering kid there's absolutely nothing to be afraid of. No monster, no hell.

And then, all's well in the world. Peace. Fearlessness. Knowledge.
___________________

Gabby, as to our rapidly deteriorating ecosystems, on this you and I are in agreement. I detest the mindless Conservative/Christian position (as in the mega-ignorant eco-philosophies posited by that bloviator Rush Limbaugh, for instance) that Mother Earth can and is handling "anything", that we're having absolutely no effect on the earth's obviously limited resources or it's resiliency, and that it should be full steam ahead on massive extraction of oil, salt, water, minerals, coal et al. "And Man shall have Dominion, etc. etc"

Yah think el Rushbo might just be an arrogant hack for Big Biz? Nahhhhh....

I'm pretty sure he's also not really a true, devoted and practicing Christian either (anyone ever seen him in a Florida church?); he just knows that's a large part of his $$$$$constituency$$$$, and it's pretty easy to cater to them by dropping a few mentions of god's will, his purpose and his rightful place in American politics:

"Praise The Lord and pass the senate votes!".
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Unread 01-23-2011, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 1,338,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
………. or “you’re going to hell” or “you’ll be sorry” if you don’t get right with god.

How frequently this is the typical response from believers as to why non-believers must get to know god or jesus or some other fairy tale character. For some the mind is so shutdown to reason that this is as far it ever goes. “You’re going to hell” end of discussion.

Debating or attempting to debate many believers, one is met with an onslaught of “you are going to hell” or other emotional outbursts as the reason one must subscribe to the fallacy of a god, and of course it must be their god. When that concept is challenged, i.e. asking for any reasoning as to why failing to believe in a god will cause one to gain entry into hell, the response often an appeal to fear, void of any rational at all.

Believers follow the concept that having faith without evidence is a good thing, and that being more certain of their beliefs than the evidence warrants, is somehow a virtue. How does one become so irrational?

Response from non-believers is frequently a challenge of reason, to look at the evidence, which is this case is an absence of evidence, and a challenge to the believer to examine their reason for belief and see if they can actually justify (with rational thought) why they believe. Atheist do not use the appeal to consequences argument, but merely challenge the believer to think, only to be told I am going to hell, or that I am going to be sorry I didn’t subscribe to a fantasy as a fact. A convincing argument, don’t ya think……………….
I believe that the devil puts me in hell if I don't obey God's rules. That may be a non-believer too. It means that that the non-believing in the forgiveness of the sacred heart, for instance, still permits belief in the sacred heart to continue for the eventual fulfillment of promises of for instance the blessed rosary. I am challenged to reason why God should do the ugly sort of non-believing in another half of mankind: who believes; who doesn't believe: I believe that He believes: It occurs for the reconciliation principle somehow without consciousness.

But the question by one of our hosts is: why does he know the devil accurately?; I don't know him accurately unless you mean sometimes He's some politician... The sentence that 'the devil put me in hell" is a tautological one based on the Godhead, daaaaa....
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Unread 01-23-2011, 10:45 AM
 
1,806 posts, read 875,146 times
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20% of the earth's population is using up 80% of the earth's resources.
within the last 50 years the earth has been abused and raped so harshly until we may not recover but yeah what you are talking is more important of course.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 1,338,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
20% of the earth's population is using up 80% of the earth's resources.
within the last 50 years the earth has been abused and raped so harshly until we may not recover but yeah what you are talking is more important of course.

But the pre-condition of globalism should be peace, not democracy. On the other, hand without democracy per say in the countries of issue, South America, here could not be a successful globalism conscience built on ..... why would I feel like an expert on that issue rather than the problem of cooperation of religions and ideologies?
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Unread 01-23-2011, 11:02 AM
 
1,806 posts, read 875,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
But the pre-condition of globalism should be peace, not democracy. On the other, hand without democracy per say in the countries of issue, South America, here could not be a successful globalism conscience built on ..... why would I feel like an expert on that issue rather than the problem of cooperation of religions and ideologies?
what are you ever talking about?
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Unread 01-23-2011, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,442 posts, read 8,008,058 times
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Religion does not teach, nor promote reason and logic. So it's best not to expect the believer to elaborate or explain. They have no defenses, nor logical argument to support their claims. Their only recourse is to threaten with hell anyone who doesn't believe.
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Unread 01-23-2011, 11:20 AM
 
1,806 posts, read 875,146 times
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some populations use religion as cattle-call. they have no links back to their original heritage and therefore they use the generic Christian term as a vein ... a modern day underground- rail road type thing.
the more burgouise of these minorities who have moved on, often in attempts to acclimate with what they percieve to be the upper-crust will belittle those who still assemble under these circumstances. i'am witness that often when these minorities assemble they do not have much of a purpose besides trying to avoid going to hell (all the while some are living hell everyday). these assemblies are dying out because of cost and non-purposes but maybe just maybe they will be able to see a/our global purposes.

"i know Jesus gone work it out"....when a person says that sometimes the armour really is semi-impenetrable but one cannot give up. it's frustrating.

Last edited by gabfest; 01-23-2011 at 11:29 AM..
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Unread 01-23-2011, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
1,730 posts, read 1,697,925 times
Reputation: 1144
Then when you question, you get the standard come back, "It's in the bible", like that is suppose to convince me that it's the truth. "How do you know the bible is true?" "The bible says it's the truth!"
Now there you have it, there is no disputing, we are all going to hell because the bible says so.
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