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Lev 19
18 Nor shall you take a woman as a rival to her sister, to uncover her nakedness while the other is alive.
19 ‘Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity. 20 Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her.
29 For whoever commits any of these abominations, the persons who commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
Lev 20
10 ‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. 11 The man who lies with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. 12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death. They have committed perversion. Their blood shall be upon them. 13
This is the crux of the adultery crimes relating to the heterosexuals of the Christian society.
We read of pastor marrying his daughter in law - gets free pass.
We have the stats that over 50% of Christians are on wife/husband 2.0 or greater - gets free pass.
It is pretty clear this Christian God has it in for these crimes, so I invite all Christians to enter this thread and explain why this free pass happens and why these people are not expelled from the church as clearly stated in the Levitical laws. No need to go as far as killing as we all are a bit more civilized than that.
Well, if you want to get really technical, a lot of Jews got free passes, too, when it came to Levitical law.
Just like all the sects found in the Christian fold, there were a great many Jewish sects, and they were all quarreling with each other as to which sect was most correct or the only correct one.
Levitical Law, although being a part of the Torah, was not necessarily hard and fast, any more than the laws of America are hard and fast. There are always going to be loopholes and "other" circumstances.
That is why there is the old joke: "Where are you going to find a lawyer in Heaven?" [Satan to St. Peter]
Then again, we have to have a separation from Judaism if Christians want to be Christian. The Jews have their needs to be righteous; Islam and its Sharia just took Rabbinism to a higher level, with exaggerated punishment.
It is not so much as certain Christians get free passes. Perhaps it is more of an American custom to give away free passes. I mean, look at President Nixon, disgraced for so many years, only to rechristened as an international saint.
We Americans especially have this propensity to raise certain favored individuals to a form of godhood, such as popular sports and entertainment figures, politicians, and the clergy. We give them licence to do just about anything.
It is a very difficult concept to both understand and explain. It is a lamentable phenomenon that we have to try to correct, but I can join the consternation that we are not making much headway.
Secondly, it is not a phenomenon limited to religious figures. We have social laws on the books that prohibit a great many human activities; yet, how many of these laws do we really prosecute. [One law that might have finally be removed from all the law slates of all the 50 states is how one may lie with one's wife: the missionary position. Yet, during its active period, how many cases were really brought to the docket that violated this "legal" position.
It appears to boil down not to "what you know," but back to that "who you know." How many entertainers and politicians have gotten away with "murder," while those of us considered to be "unwashed" and plebians are hammered with the full extent of both the law and the broad whitewashing of guilt by society?
That's all good and fine, much generalities but I still do not see the outrage and judgment we see on the gay threads. These scriptural laws are from the same chapters dealing with homosexuals. Based on the sin factor, where is the moral outrage of christians? That is what this thread is for. I will not be defending adulterers because it clearly states in the scriptures what shoulod be done.
The very least they should be condemned and ostracized from the christian church, they should not be allowed into ANY christian church because their sin too is an abomination unto the lord.
But pastors marry divorced couples, they are embraced with open arms and their sin of adultery, meaning every time they have sex with wife/husband 2.0 they commit adultery. There are no exceptions to this law.
Jesus even went onto say that just thinking lustfully you have committed adultery in the heart. Thus the only way a divorced person can continue in the "grace of god" is by total abstention to contact with the opposite sex or until wife/husband 1.0 dies.
We have to stay within the constructs of the old testament as that is where these laws originate.
No free pass from the Catholic Church, but most of Leviticus doesn’t apply to Christians - Acts 15:28-29 (USCCB - NAB - Acts 15)-
“'It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.'"
Lev 19
18 Nor shall you take a woman as a rival to her sister, to uncover her nakedness while the other is alive.
19 ‘Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity. 20 Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her.
29 For whoever commits any of these abominations, the persons who commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
Lev 20
10 ‘The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. 11 The man who lies with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. 12 If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death. They have committed perversion. Their blood shall be upon them. 13
This is the crux of the adultery crimes relating to the heterosexuals of the Christian society.
We read of pastor marrying his daughter in law - gets free pass.
We have the stats that over 50% of Christians are on wife/husband 2.0 or greater - gets free pass.
It is pretty clear this Christian God has it in for these crimes, so I invite all Christians to enter this thread and explain why this free pass happens and why these people are not expelled from the church as clearly stated in the Levitical laws. No need to go as far as killing as we all are a bit more civilized than that.
Over to you.
wow using verses from the bible when you havent read the entire book either.... your just all over the place no wonder your confused...
I would suggest that it is easy to pick up the Law as it is written down in the OT and pick fault with it.
It is also easy to state (or believe) that all Jews are the same, and there is only one form of Judaism. Unfortunately, that is not the case. The Judaic church in Jerusalem was as "war" with the Judaic faith in Shechem (Samaria).
So, any Levitical laws became an identifier of a people apart from the rest of the world. Although these laws would become part of the Torah, and the Torah was to be revered above all else, there is something that has to be added to the mix that is rarely, if ever, discussed or included in the discussion.
Unlike most of the Christian-founded religions that use the Bible as the ultimate authority (under God, of course), the Judaic religion did not. The Midrashes (or explanations / expoundings) of the Torah were the supreme authority. We have to look at the Midrashes for a "correct" interpretation of the very strict and often severe Levitical laws.
These Midrashes were written by countless men (Rabbi) who became "famous" in their own right and were regarded as "mouths of God," who then could write down the Midrashes.
At the shallowest end of the "pool," these learned Rabbi realized that the Levitical laws were the most perfect forms of thinking and behavior: they could not possibly be followed. Yet, God was not such an ogre that It would destroy everyone simply because they could not live up to Its ideal. Besides, every person is different; their brains are different; a compromise had to be made to incorporate what was generally agreed upon to be realistic and the perfect.
I would like to think that these Rabbis were a bit of psychologists, too. The world is not perfect, and people are certainly not perfect either. Young people were not allowed to make mistakes; their parents made their mistakes for them. Two people were betrothed. Did they love each other? Probably not. Love has no place in marriage, which is simply a political or financial contract (an insurance to maintain patriarchal lineage). They had copious sex. If the woman got pregnant, the couple married. If the woman did not get pregnant, it was all her fault, and she was cast out of the social family. The man got to try it with another woman. What we would call premarital sex was condoned by Jewish society to ensure that there would be children.
Last edited by Wallisdj; 03-21-2011 at 09:36 PM..
Reason: Not finished yet!
Next, I would like to question the so-called moral outrage that should be expressed by Christians--or the expectation of moral outrage.
If we look at the central core of the Christ philosophy, there is nothing more or nothing less than forgiveness. There is no seeking of justice or retribution. Justice and retribution and the like are manmade institutions, and the reason why we have made laws to keep societies civil and in some semblance of order is because we animals are incapable to doing it on our own.
When my neighbor sins, I still love him/her. It is out of love that I state my piece and my thinking or justification as to why I think he/she sinned. In some cases, it have to slap my neighbor up side the head, but such discipline is done out of love, not our of anger or righteous indignation. Least of all should I declare that I am an agent of some God and have the right to punish my neighbor.
One could point to the OT and make a case, however, that this is what was repeated time and time again: a person rises up with the sword of Jahweh and crushes entire nations. Well, unfortunately, what we read in the Bible with all of its bloodlust and destruction ordered by a god just did not historically happen. And, when one simply reads the surface of these stories, they miss the deeper meanings and intents of the author. [It would be akin to reading the Hobbit and walking away with a little fellow who finds a ring and becomes a hero in time. Tolkien put a lot of hidden and subsurface meanings about people and society (indeed, mankind) in his "children's" story.] Again, we just are taught the "other side of the coin" for a goodly number of reasons; one of which, the "truth" more or less destroys the effort to control people through literal interpretation.
It is quite humbling to me that the Amish acted more Christlike towards a man who killed several children than any mainstream Christian congregation. And the Amish are not even Christian. Their view of a God is so "alien" to most people, and yet, I believe their approach to viewing and understanding God is a smidgen more correct than most Christian, Judaic, and Islamic view.
wow using verses from the bible when you havent read the entire book either.... your just all over the place no wonder your confused...
I was a xian for 30 years and have studied the bible in detail and the early church history, where xianity came from, the similarities to other myths etc. Nice try though, you have to go answer some stuff in another thread.
No free pass from the Catholic Church, but most of Leviticus doesn’t apply to Christians - Acts 15:28-29 (USCCB - NAB - Acts 15)-
“'It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewell.'"
TY for replying but unfortunately this is not how the folk see it, leviticus never seems to apply to adultery but applies to homosexuality. What constitutes an unlawful marriage if it does not refer back to the levitical law. According to the gospels, jesus often referred back to the law of moses and in fact stated that he had come to fulfill the law, not replace it.
From your citation
19 It is my judgment, therefore, that we ought to stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God, 20 but tell them by letter to avoid pollution from idols, unlawful marriage, the meat of strangled animals, and blood. 21 For Moses, for generations now, has had those who proclaim him in every town, as he has been read in the synagogues every sabbath."
There are no specifics, read in context, the blue bit, clearly show reference to the Levitical law aka law of moses, you know the bits that start off with "and the lord said unto moses..."
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