Why doesn't God make His presence too obvious to ignore? (Adam and Eve, belief)
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Discovering God has been a life-time journey for me, just as I suspect discovering He doesn't exist has been for you.
No. I've never believed to begin with. I was born atheist and remained so. There was no discovery to make.
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It's been going on now for nearly 62 years. There was no "aha!" moment, no sudden beam of clarity, just a piling up of evidence upon evidence until it became clear to me that there was no other explanation.
You keep saying there is "evidence" yet, despite myself and others asking you to provide it, you have failed to do so.
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To outline it at this point would require an auto-biography of epic proportions and I can't just sit down and write that in afternoon.
So it isn't actually "evidence " after all. It's your personal feelings...faith in other words. See, the good thing about evidence is that it's available to everyone. The fact that you have to go searching through your life to find it is very telling.
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But, even if I did, there would be plenty of room for disagreement and argument,
Not if it's REAL evidence because it could be tested and verified, I couldn't dispute it. Which leaves me in no doubt that what you have is faith and not evidence.
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I do, however, have a commandment from my Lord to show you the truth,....
The truth according to you. Again, for something to be true it must be supported by objective, verifiable and testable data. If what you have really is 'true' then you will be able to support it with objective, verifiable and testable data. Let's see it.
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My mission from Christ is to show you His love, through me, and to explain the path to salvation. That's all I will do, though I won't do it here as proseletyzing is forbidden by the TOU.
First you will need to prove that your 'Christ' exists. Can you do that?
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So, here's on tidbit from that enormous pile as a starting point:
We have "life." Where did that come from?
I have no idea where life came from and neither do you or anyone else. Nor is it important to me that I know. I can quite happily live with 'I don't know'
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If it just naturally developed, why and under what circumstances?
Again, I have no idea. There are many ways life could have arrived on this planet. Meteor impact, it was always here in some form or other, Alien experiments, magic pixies....pick any you want.
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Why did some things on earth evolve into life and others did not?
ALL life forms evolve.
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Another: Consider the development of a human being from the fertilization of a single egg by a single sperm. It begins as two radically different organism, carrying entirely different genetic programs, yet transforms itself from two to four to 16 different cellular structures and, ulitmately, into entirely different structures, each uniquely qualified to carry on unique and very different functions, without which the human body cannot live.
How is this evidence for gods??
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From that mating of egg and sperm come brain cells, nerves, spinal cords, livers, lungs, blood, blood vessels, skin, intestines. Each different, each critical, and each in the proper place, performing their own necessary functions. And, it does that universally in roughly 9 months, in all races, all times, all enviornments, throughout human history, from Cain and Able to the birth yesterday of my new Niece.
How is this evidence for gods??
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Yes, science can explain how that happens, but it cannot explain why it happens and it's done so without much deviation for eons upon eons.
Why should it deviate? It's a very successful procedure. It has no need to deviate or change. Had it needed to it would have. That's how evolution works.
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Except for changes in size and outward appearance, human beings have been created the same way for as long as human beings have been here.
Well if you mean that we all have two arm, two legs, two eyes, a nose etc then yes but you and I have different traits to those of our ancestors...even from only a few hundred years ago.
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Unlike other species, there has been no evolution into something other than what we are.
...but there has. You are assuming we appeared exactly as we see ourselves today. We didn't.
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It seems to me that the odds of that happening accidently, without plan, rhyme or reason, defies logic.
The evidence for evolution is overpowering. It is so overpowering that is now accepted as fact...not by fundie Christians of course but by all who live in the realms of reality...the real world. Ignore the verifiable evidence at your peril.
That's sort of like asking me if I've quit beating my wife. No matter how I answer, it's wrong.
But, yes, I would in certain circumstances.
For instance, one of my kids goes off the deep end, sticks a gun in my face and says, "Dad, I'm going to kill you."
I say, "Don't do that!" and he fires anyhow, but misses.
Yes, I would kill him. (Don't think this is an theoretical situation. It actually happened to a friend of mine in North Carolina.)
What would YOU do?
No, none of us did. As a preacher once remarked about people in America, "We may all have come over on different ships, but we're all in the same boat now."
But, you did. So did I. So did everyone. We've all availed ourselves of the so-called "sins of the flesh." Just because we don't believe the law applies to us doesn't make us innocent. Try that idea on a felony charge and see how far you get.
Of course He wants us to question Him! Where did you ever get such an idea?
With faith, those contradictions disappear.
But it didn't and we are where we are.
No not a tyrant!!!! Don't even compare us, I am not evil. I teach not demand with the threats.
Would I kill my kid, no, I would take advantage of the situation and try to disarm him first, only kill if absolutely no other way, unlike your god. But then again, when did all those innocent people and babies and animals try to kill god? Yet he had them killed. Would you kill your child for turning away from you and leaving you? Would you continue to punish your grandkids and there kids and so on for the mis-deads of your first kids?
He doesn't want us to question, that is why we are punished for eternity if we do.
Faith is blind, nothing more than ignorance to it. Gods words, that is what the bible is suppose to be yet it is wrong about so many things and full of contradictions, clearly god couldn't get it right.
So do I, but there are far more threads started to debunk Christianity or to ridicule Christian's than there are the other way around. Just take a look at what's running right now for evidence.
Why is that? Who's afraid of whom?
Deliberate ignorance is dangerous to society. The proof is easily found in our society. Laws that discriminate against others exist solely due to the practice of deliberate ignorance.
Your god, made us in his image, which obviously is imperfect because we are. Knowing FULL WELL that we would sin and that he would have to wipe us out and start over, but made us anyway without leaving out the sin part knowing we would sin again. He let the sin happen, actually even set it up. Seems that is a mighty sadistic god you have there.
He made us in his IMAGE, not exactly like Him. The image you see in the mirror looks like you, but it's not you, is it?
Yes, He set us up for failure. He made us weak and imperfect vessels, then gave us a set of rules He knows we cannot successfully follow.
But, His intent isn't to punish us, but to forgive us through Christ. His desire is that ALL should come to repentance! (2Pe 3:9) Repentance means to have a change of mind, a change of heart and is a pre-requisite to salvation. He doesn't want any of us to go to hell (whatever that is), but He left it up to us to chose.
How is that sadistic? Don't you want your kids to love you voluntarily? Would you put them into a position where they HAD to love you, whether they wanted to or not? If you did that, would their love be genuine?
Evolution tells us how we came to be humans took millions of years. Pregnancy is dangerous and deadly for the sperm, one makes it out of 300 million. Woman's body wants nothing to do with them so tries to kill them all off. Doesn't seem we were meant to procreate life, why make it so hard?
Yes, but why?
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Science is getting closer to figuring out how life began, just a matter of time. We have come a long way since two thousand years ago.
Yes, but there's still no answer to why, is there?
Even Darwin didn't claim we came from apes. I don't know where that came from. Granted, it's been awhile since I read "Origin of the Species," (have you read it?), but I recall he suggested that all life forms on earth, including humans, came from probably no more than 3 or 4 original life forms. But, he offered no evidence as to WHY those 3 or 4 species suddenly became living organisms, at least as I remember. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
He made us in his IMAGE, not exactly like Him. The image you see in the mirror looks like you, but it's not you, is it?
Yes, He set us up for failure. He made us weak and imperfect vessels, then gave us a set of rules He knows we cannot successfully follow.
But, His intent isn't to punish us, but to forgive us through Christ. His desire is that ALL should come to repentance! (2Pe 3:9) Repentance means to have a change of mind, a change of heart and is a pre-requisite to salvation. He doesn't want any of us to go to hell (whatever that is), but He left it up to us to chose.
How is that sadistic? Don't you want your kids to love you voluntarily? Would you put them into a position where they HAD to love you, whether they wanted to or not? If you did that, would their love be genuine?
Do you believe in aliens? If you do, did god make them in his image as well?
We are imperfect, god made us, so he is in fact imperfect as well or just sadistic and cruel.
I don't set my kids up to fail, I want them strong and able to take care of themselves to make their own way and decision and not have to worry about any type of punishment if they do things that go against what I would want of them. You can have rules without having to be set up to fail or being weak.
I have nothing to be forgiven for, Christ wasn't for me, I didn't do anything nor was I born. I have nothing to repent for. Yes I want my kids to love me, but I wouldn't force them or punish them and their kids and so on if they didn't.
he puts us in a position of having to love him, OR WE SUFFER ETERNALLY, gee that seems forced to me.
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