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That's fine if you don't want to believe in a God because you don't feel He's powerful enough for you.
It's certainly a contradiction you can't answer. Hence the distraction of blaming everyone else :
Quote:
I'm just saying that you've reached the conclusion that He doesn't exist when you won't even look for Him, which makes no sense to me, but whatever.
Please prove that I've never looked for god. Also, tell me specifically how I should have done it so I would have been successful. I think I've asked for this information 3 or 4 times, and your response seems to be to blame me for not trying. That's great, but what the heck am I supposed to be doing?
Fortunately...for the other 98% of all the 100 Billion people that have ever existed...they COULD/CAN perceive a God.
Unfortunately, they all disagree on what they're seeing when they see god. It's unfair to quote a huge number of people as agreeing that god(s) exist when you can't even get a majority of them to agree on how many gods there are.
Unfortunately, they all disagree on what they're seeing when they see god. It's unfair to quote a huge number of people as agreeing that god(s) exist when you can't even get a majority of them to agree on how many gods there are.
I just said, "they COULD/CAN perceive a God"...I didn't qualify the details of what their perception of God was/is...because everyone has a unique perception of ANYTHING/EVERYTHING...especially God.
Unfortunately, they all disagree on what they're seeing when they see god. It's unfair to quote a huge number of people as agreeing that god(s) exist when you can't even get a majority of them to agree on how many gods there are.
Ever seen Rashomon? Reality is based on perception.
False and irrelevant. What I am pointing out is simply that if there is a question.... and only one answer is given... then that answer is not correct solely because it is the only one given. You have to support that answer with argument, evidence, data or reasoning. You have not.
The practice of pretending an answer is right solely because it is the only one on offer... and using that fact as a cop out for having to support the answer in any way... is the lie/canard I am pointing out here.
Your claim was that it must be true because it is the only answer on offer. This simply is not the correct way to operate.
If you have any evidence, argument, data or reasons to suggest this god entity exists, then feel free to present it. Copping out of doing so by essentially saying "It must be right, its the only answer being offered" will not cut it.
Your whole defense is to keep throwing around the word "plausible". You do this with no reason however as I not once attacked the plausibility of your argument. I am willing to concede it is plausible that a god entity exists and he/she/it is responsible for the creation and subsequent maintenance of the universe. Plausible is not the same as saying there is any reasons whatsoever to think that is actually true. Learn to tell the difference between saying "It is possible/plausible X happened" and "I actually have reasons to suggest X happened" and you will go far.
You are the one trying to frame the argument as "the only one on offer." I have asked for your argument for your version and have received silence and repeated derailing and sidestepping. You are operating on a default that has no substance but you ignore that and demand substance from everyone else while claiming all the extant evidence for your unsubstantiated default . . . AS IF there were some scientific basis for it. There isn't and you repeatedly refuse to offer any.
It's certainly a contradiction you can't answer. Hence the distraction of blaming everyone else :
Please prove that I've never looked for god. Also, tell me specifically how I should have done it so I would have been successful. I think I've asked for this information 3 or 4 times, and your response seems to be to blame me for not trying. That's great, but what the heck am I supposed to be doing?
I've already answered this question upthread which is why I did not respond to the subsequent times that you've asked it.
There is no contradiction. I agree that the God atheists want to exist, the magical concierge that will do whatever you want when you snap your fingertips, most likely does not exist. He's God, not a genie in lamp.
So as I said, if you have any actual evidence, argument data or reasons to suggest that there is a god... I am all ears. If the best you can do is say "There are people who have personal experience of god" then you have offered nothing at all. Literally. Nothing.
I have literally said all I have to say on the subject. If the testimony of billions of people across time and culture with some pretty significant similarities does not impress you, then nothing will.
I've already said the proof you want DOES NOT exist, I cannot make God show up in your living room. I think the only "God" you would deem worthy of worship does not exist.
If you would like to continue talking about what *I* think God is, the scientific reasons behind why many astrophysicists and scientists believe the driving force of the universe is God, we can talk about that.
If you are going to insist that God should be the thing you want him to be, show Himself in the way you want Him to, and do all the things you think He should be doing, WE'VE ALREADY AGREED that type of God probably does NOT exist.
"You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."
John 14:14
You're a literalist? You don't see how this could have a spiritual significance that has nothing to do with genie-in-a-bottle? I mean, if you're going to quote a spiritual book, it makes sense to look at it spiritually.
"In my name" ... in his nature ... a nature of love according to this spiritual book. Ask anything of "God" in the nature of Love (concern for others), and see where that gets you. It might even transform you and cause you to act on behalf of Love. Maybe meditating on how to Love others will even give you insight into how to help people. Hmmm, maybe that's what prayer's all about anyway.
And maybe this is what Violett is trying to say ... stop looking at the concept of "God" in such a "magical" way and you might be surprised what you find. At least, that's what I take away from what she's saying.
You're a literalist? You don't see how this could have a spiritual significance that has nothing to do with genie-in-a-bottle? I mean, if you're going to quote a spiritual book, it makes sense to look at it spiritually.
"In my name" ... in his nature ... a nature of love according to this spiritual book. Ask anything of "God" in the nature of Love (concern for others), and see where that gets you. It might even transform you and cause you to act on behalf of Love. Maybe meditating on how to Love others will even give you insight into how to help people. Hmmm, maybe that's what prayer's all about anyway.
And maybe this is what Violett is trying to say ... stop looking at the concept of "God" in such a "magical" way and you might be surprised what you find. At least, that's what I take away from what she's saying.
This is exactly what I'm saying
But the atheists reject this kind of God. Instead, they want a magical concierge that does whatever they ask. If He can't do that, He is not "powerful enough" and "not worthy" of worship. Never mind that having that a magical concierge would be illogical because it's impossible to make everyone equally happy at the same time. Usually if someone wins, it means someone else has to lose.
Atheism, I believe, has grown in the past couple of years and I think it's due to scientific discoveries (obv), but also due to the First World mentality of "I want it right now! And if I can't get it right now, then I don't want it at all!" feelings of entitlement. Because God's work is subtle and not often instantaneous, it's not good enough for people who are used to getting whatever they want whenever they want it.
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