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Exactly. Thanks for standing up for me, Gabfest.
I've heard childish attempts to discredit a person by calling them homophobic or in the closet, simply for objecting to harmful homosexual behavior.
I have good friends & family who have homosexual preferences. I've hung out with them - I don't fear them!
I fear harmful illusions that result in harmful consequences of risky sexual behavior.
Here are some reasons I object to homosexual practices...
1. I've had 2 friends die of AIDS & I don't want to see any more death or sickness & I feel the need to shed light on health risks.
So, my cousin died of AIDS and if you do not want to see any more deaths, try influence your govt to make BC and condoms available free, that is what SA did and the numbers are declining. Retroviral drugs can extend the life of AIDS patients but that too should be made available to sufferers free. Oh and BTW, internationally more heteros die of AIDS, it is no longer just gays.
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2. Homosexuality being inborn is becoming a twisted illusion adopted by too many people - sexual preference is influenced by BOTH biology AND environmental influences (esp. psychology).
No it is not, genetics has made leaps and bounds in this regard. The problem with you is that you assume people choose to be gays as some form of rebellion. You cite psychology and that is a misnomer and this is why folk that are gay commit suicide when folk think it is a mental condition.
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Originally Posted by SuperSoul
Not only is sexually risky behavior a concern, but so is the way homosexuality is pushing it's way into the legal system & into others' lives, sometimes imposing "gay rights" over the rights of others.
What is wrong that they have equal rights?
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This especially applies to legally redefining marriage & legalizing gay marriage, which can & has had significantly negative influences, especially on children...
Where is marriage defined as a union of man and woman only (cite you r bible please) You cannot as it does not exist. The entire premise of your argument is based on indoctrination and poor knowledge of history. I have already covered this with Thomas.
IF marriage is a religious institution why is a civil court able to repudiate it?
Why do churches marry divorced people?
The religious have no right to claim marriage as their own, it is merely a tradition that does not have a long history as you would like to think it does.
Marriage has always had some form of property/assets and bloodlines/inheritance attached to it. It is not a religious construct and that I can clearly state as the Zulus in SA still follow their marriage ceremonies w/o any input from a religious person. Christianity did not invent marriage.
This is anyway moot as there are many things kick in automatically with a marriage contract and NONE of them involve reproduction, stuff like different tax rates, health care benefits etc.
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It has been proven over & over that children do best being raised with a mother AND father.
It has also been proven gay parents tend to care for their children equally if not better than hetero couples. So what is your point?
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Supporting gay marriage is devaluing mothers & fathers, claiming one or the other is not necessary, when BOTH are.
No it is not, only in your biased worldview.
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Children have the RIGHT to be raised by the 2 different, complimentary sexes that created & conceived them.
No that is bogus, what about surrogate mothers sperm donors to hetero couples? If you wish to deny gay couple this then you have to outlaw surrogacy and sperm banks.
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Children have the right to not be taught homosexuality in school. Yet, in places where gay marriage has been enacted, these rights have been infringed upon.
They do not teach homosexuality, they teach tolerance of homosexuals as normal human beings merely with a different sexual orientation.
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Freshmen were told not to tell their parents about a pro-gay seminar & were required to sign a confidentiality agreement (Derrfield, Illinois Mar. 2007).
In March, 2007, a Massachusetts high school banned parents from attending a seminar for students on how they can know they are homosexual.
So what is wrong with that? If a kid is wrestling with his/her sexual identity, is it not better to know there are support groups than to pretend to be something they are not and live a life that is unfulfilled?
I get it, send them to an anti gay camp and let the folk pray the gay away.
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In October, 2008, First graders (6 year-old students) were taken on a field trip to watch their lesbian teacher's wedding.
So a wedding of like sexes is not seem on TV shows? I have seen them and they are all US shows. You really think 6 year olds are aware of their sexuality other than the boys and girls are different.
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In Oct 2008, a Hayward CA public elementary school celebrated "Coming Out Day."
Kudos to them, why hide the fact you are different?
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Also, others' rights have been infringed upon in favor of supporting gay rights.
In April 2008, an Albuquerque photographer was fined over $6,000 for refusing to be hired to photograph a lesbian couple's commitment ceremony.
That is wrong. See your laws need to be changed not only to allow gays full rights but also to allow folk who have different value systems to not be forced to participate in the event. This is probably a very isolated case as the gay community tend to be the ones running wedding shops for the straight etc. W/o knowing the details, I find it hard to imagine that two women would engage a photographer's services and not indicate to him/her that is was their wedding to each other.
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In May, 2008, a black administrator was fired from the U of Toledo, Ohio, for writing an editorial objecting to the comparison of black discrimination to same-sex marriage.
Was it a university rag?
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An intolerant opponent of Proposition 8 even violently attacked & injured a Proposition supporter in Oct. 2008.
DO you blame them? They had rights previously, you lot took it away from them. Not that I condone violence but understand the sentiment.
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On November 19, 2008, eHarmony, a Christian-based matching service was forced by New Jersey's Division on Civil Rights to provide website matching services for homosexuals.
Where do you get that they a xian based? I looked at their about page and there is no reference to them being xian as they cater for all types of people. In fact the gay and lesbian is a subset just like Asian or Jew dating. I seriously doubt they would turn customers away when there is money to be made in advertising, no free lunch and all.
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Redefining marriage is trying to impose a minority's belief on a majority, forcing social acceptance through the legal system & is causing harm to others in the process.
No it is not, they simply want to have equal rights.
Your whole post reeks of bigotry and bias and the things you cite are vague and cannot be challenged. Folk like you would not be able to live in SA under our constitution that provides equal recognition of all people regardless of race or sexual orientation. You could but you would be forced to keep your opinions to yourself should you want to go public with them.
I will keep on hammering this point over and over, gays are not a threat to society. When they are treated as equals, there will be no programs or attempts to garner support/tolerance which you folk see as a gay agenda. How else did the black folk and women get the vote if not by engaging public opinion?
You would be happy that gay folk simply sit in the corner and shaddup but they will not stop till they get what they want.
The mere fact that you write them off as a minority clearly shows that your society is one that does not give a crap about minorities. In your eyes they must conform to the will of the majority. I guess that is democracy in the USA for you?
Minorities in SA as diverse as they are can do what they do as long as it does not infringe on any legal statutory laws or harms anyone else.
Getting back to your lame excuse for gay agenda, in our schools, we have a subject called life skills and this is where sex ed is given. Homosexuality is mentioned in the course but not as part of sex ed. Of course our sex ed takes it to the level of BC and use of condoms as pretending that teens do not have sex is being stupid. The mechanics of reproduction is dealt with in biology where it belongs.
Gays do not come to the schools to teach the gay/alternative lifestyle as it is not a choice one makes. If they have a concern for gays not to get aids and use condoms, it is covered in the basic curriculum. In my daughters school she completed last year, there are two lesbian teachers but they teach their respective subjects not their sexuality. One is math and the other is English.
What you also need to realize, all gays came out of straight couple unions and they all wrestled with their sexuality. Now that the world, even the US is becoming more tolerant, of course they are going to have seminars dealing with the sexuality of children. I really do not think they are there with erotic slides of lesbians and gays doing it. Furthermore at 16 something, most kids are fully aware of their sexual attraction one way or the other, the gays are of course in the minority. For LGBT folk to know that they are different and it is still OK in my book is not anything subversive.
I personally cannot imagine how a guy can be attracted to another guy sexually yet it happens. If you speak to them they tell you that to them females are like a bro would be to me.
I am guessing that you still have young kids and if they are not gay now, the will not become gay. Gays are born this way, that is the logical conclusion devoid of any scientific/genetic facts as no one in their right mind will CHOOSE to be gay in the predominantly homophobic US of A.
Seeker,
No baby is born with ANY sexual desire.
They are innocently naive & as mentioned, our brains are only 25% developed at birth. Many of the connections happen after birth, to allow for survival by adapting to environmental influences. Therefore, although we may be born with a tendency for this or that, environmental influences must be just right for that tendency to be expressed.
Also, are you aware that homosexual couples ALREADY have rights? The only reason to change the legal definition of marriage is to force social acceptance of homosexuality, through the government.
That is the wrong way to get social acceptance, especially when it infinges on others' rights, as mentioned previously.
The only reason to legally change the definition of marriage is to FORCE homosexual beliefs on society & to use the LEGAL system to gain acceptance by coercion.
Rights are already in place for homosexual couples under Common Law Marriage and Cohabitation Agreements (sometimes also referred to as reciprocal beneficiaries).
These rights may include, but are not limited to...
- Eligibility for health insurance benefits,
- Life insurance benefits,
- Child visitation rights,
- Hospital visitation rights,
- Inheritance when named in the deceased will &...
- For those under common law marriage - inheritance even without a will - called interstate succession,
- With common law marraige, courts may be ased to settle post-relationships property disputes,
- With common law marriage, alimony awards
- Domestic partners may also if entered a formal agreement for palimony prior to cohabitation
Marvin v Marvin, 18 Cal. 3d 660, 557 P.2d 106, 134 Cal. Rptr. 815 (Cal. 1976)
Seeker,
No baby is born with ANY sexual desire.
They are innocently naive & as mentioned, our brains are only 25% developed at birth. Many of the connections happen after birth, to allow for survival by adapting to environmental influences. Therefore, although we may be born with a tendency for this or that, environmental influences must be just right for that tendency to be expressed.
Also, are you aware that homosexual couples ALREADY have rights? The only reason to change the legal definition of marriage is to force social acceptance of homosexuality, through the government.
That is the wrong way to get social acceptance, especially when it infinges on others' rights, as mentioned previously.
The only reason to legally change the definition of marriage is to FORCE homosexual beliefs on society & to use the LEGAL system to gain acceptance by coercion.
Rights are already in place for homosexual couples under Common Law Marriage and Cohabitation Agreements (sometimes also referred to as reciprocal beneficiaries).
These rights may include, but are not limited to...
- Eligibility for health insurance benefits,
- Life insurance benefits,
- Child visitation rights,
- Hospital visitation rights,
- Inheritance when named in the deceased will &...
- For those under common law marriage - inheritance even without a will - called interstate succession,
- With common law marraige, courts may be ased to settle post-relationships property disputes,
- With common law marriage, alimony awards
- Domestic partners may also if entered a formal agreement for palimony prior to cohabitation
Marvin v Marvin, 18 Cal. 3d 660, 557 P.2d 106, 134 Cal. Rptr. 815 (Cal. 1976)
babies aren't born with a desire, but they are born with their ORIENTATIONS in tact, these oreintatiions are SET to START UP at puberty. i am gay and was as such when iw as born. and gay rights have NOTHING to do with 'you' unless you are gay or a member of our family or close friend. How arrogant of you
RLarson,
Do you have any proof that babies are born with orientations in tact? - Like a new completely different anatomy book?
Gay rights do affect me & others. Already, others' rights have been infringed on where gay marriage has been ennacted...
Children have the right to not be taught homosexuality in school. Yet, in places where gay marriage has been enacted, these rights have been infringed upon.
Freshmen were told not to tell their parents about a pro-gay seminar & were required to sign a confidentiality agreement (Derrfield, Illinois Mar. 2007).
In March, 2007, a Massachusetts high school banned parents from attending a seminar for students on how they can know they are homosexual.
In October, 2008, First graders (6 year-old students) were taken on a field trip to watch their lesbian teacher's wedding.
In Oct 2008, a Hayward CA public elementary school celebrated "Coming Out Day."
Also, others' rights have been infringed upon in favor of supporting gay rights.
In April 2008, an Albuquerque photographer was fined over $6,000 for refusing to be hired to photograph a lesbian couple's commitment ceremony.
In May, 2008, a black administrator was fired from the U of Toledo, Ohio, for writing an editorial objecting to the comparison of black discrimination to same-sex marriage.
An intolerant opponent of Proposition 8 even violently attacked & injured a Proposition supporter in Oct. 2008.
On November 19, 2008, eHarmony, a Christian-based matching service was forced by New Jersey's Division on Civil Rights to provide website matching services for homosexuals.
Homosexual ALREADY have rights under common law marriage & cohabitation or reciprocal partnership agreements. Redefining marriage is trying to impose a minority's belief on a majority, forcing social acceptance through the legal system & is causing harm to others in the process.
Seeker,
No baby is born with ANY sexual desire.
They are innocently naive & as mentioned, our brains are only 25% developed at birth. Many of the connections happen after birth, to allow for survival by adapting to environmental influences. Therefore, although we may be born with a tendency for this or that, environmental influences must be just right for that tendency to be expressed.
Also, are you aware that homosexual couples ALREADY have rights? The only reason to change the legal definition of marriage is to force social acceptance of homosexuality, through the government.
That is the wrong way to get social acceptance, especially when it infinges on others' rights, as mentioned previously.
The only reason to legally change the definition of marriage is to FORCE homosexual beliefs on society & to use the LEGAL system to gain acceptance by coercion.
Rights are already in place for homosexual couples under Common Law Marriage and Cohabitation Agreements (sometimes also referred to as reciprocal beneficiaries).
These rights may include, but are not limited to...
- Eligibility for health insurance benefits,
- Life insurance benefits,
- Child visitation rights,
- Hospital visitation rights,
- Inheritance when named in the deceased will &...
- For those under common law marriage - inheritance even without a will - called interstate succession,
- With common law marraige, courts may be ased to settle post-relationships property disputes,
- With common law marriage, alimony awards
- Domestic partners may also if entered a formal agreement for palimony prior to cohabitation
Marvin v Marvin, 18 Cal. 3d 660, 557 P.2d 106, 134 Cal. Rptr. 815 (Cal. 1976)
Um, you have LOTS of first hand sources to ask. I have been gay my whole life WITHOUT CHOICE made. actually it was very hard for me to BE gay because I don't like standing out and I live in a small town in a rural state.
when I hit puberty my attraction to men hit in the same way that a hetero starts feeling both sexually and romantically towards women.
Many in my family could even tell I was gay when i was a small child. They told me as such. I remember even well before puberty feeling 'different' from other boys.
I grew up in a GOOD and NORMAL household. my siblings are all straight. and i was NOT molested as a child.
also because of DOMA, domestic partnerships are NOT the same as marriage.
Also I think it's laughable that you think denying me the same rights that you get is 'INTRUDING" on YOUR rights somehow. DENYING OTHER PEOPLE RIGHTS is NOT a 'right'.
I think it's funny how the victimizers are trying to make the VICTIMS out to be the perpetrators. that's like punching someone in the face and then saying you're the victim because he got in the way of your fist.
I think it's odd that ANY non gay people feel ANYTHING different towards gay people that they do towards straight people. and actually are PASSIONate about denying me rights or about homosexuality in general.
If you don't like an unchosen birth trait you don't blame the person born with it. You can yell at God/Nature or whatever you want to about differences that exist that you don't like.
gay people are NO MORE sexual than straight people. Some are promiscuous, some choose to only date and marry one person some are celibate and anywhere in between.
AS far as accepting the unchosen birth trait of homosexuality (which isn't even a behavior or an action) REALITY forces you to either accept it, like you have to accept trees, death, the reality of water etc. or live in a delusional state.
also i don't care about your 'acceptance'. IF someone can't accept me the way i am because i was born gay that simply isn't my issue. that's YOUR problem. I don't care about strangers accepting me the way i came out of the womb. If you don't you're weird and have issues. again the EGO/arrogance, in how you take a regular strangers life and make it about YOU is appalling.
Um, you have LOTS of first hand sources to ask. I have been gay my whole life WITHOUT CHOICE made. actually it was very hard for me to BE gay because I don't like standing out and I live in a small town in a rural state.
when I hit puberty my attraction to men hit in the same way that a hetero starts feeling both sexually and romantically towards women.
Many in my family could even tell I was gay when i was a small child. They told me as such. I remember even well before puberty feeling 'different' from other boys.
I grew up in a GOOD and NORMAL household. my siblings are all straight. and i was NOT molested as a child.
also because of DOMA, domestic partnerships are NOT the same as marriage.
Also I think it's laughable that you think denying me the same rights that you get is 'INTRUDING" on YOUR rights somehow. DENYING OTHER PEOPLE RIGHTS is NOT a 'right'.
I think it's funny how the victimizers are trying to make the VICTIMS out to be the perpetrators. that's like punching someone in the face and then saying you're the victim because he got in the way of your fist.
I think it's odd that ANY non gay people feel ANYTHING different towards gay people that they do towards straight people. and actually are PASSIONate about denying me rights or about homosexuality in general.
If you don't like an unchosen birth trait you don't blame the person born with it. You can yell at God/Nature or whatever you want to about differences that exist that you don't like.
gay people are NO MORE sexual than straight people. Some are promiscuous, some choose to only date and marry one person some are celibate and anywhere in between.
AS far as accepting the unchosen birth trait of homosexuality (which isn't even a behavior or an action) REALITY forces you to either accept it, like you have to accept trees, death, the reality of water etc. or live in a delusional state.
also i don't care about your 'acceptance'. IF someone can't accept me the way i am because i was born gay that simply isn't my issue. that's YOUR problem. I don't care about strangers accepting me the way i came out of the womb. If you don't you're weird and have issues. again the EGO/arrogance, in how you take a regular strangers life and make it about YOU is appalling.
Personal attacks are against tos. Also, fecal matter is filthy and should not be handled nor consumed; some people find it extremely yucky to do so. They have rights to their opinion just as you do yours. No one has to accept anyone.
They have rights to their opinion just as you do yours. No one has to accept anyone.
Exactly.
Yet, that's how it's played out (in cases previously mentioned)... legalizing gay marriage in areas, has required some to accept others' beliefs.
I understand that nobody likes discrimination. When I've been around any type of discrimination (from racial to homosexual) I've stood up for them, even got hit in the face for getting in the middle of a fight. And I'm not exactly a boxer. lol
Yet, I've seen a lot of reverse discrimination, where homosexuals expect special treatment because they are gay. If anyone objects, they cry, "Discrimination! Homophobic! Gay Hater!"
They want rights, yet they deny others rights of freedom of speech & freedom of religious beliefs.
If a Muslim gets harassed because of religious beliefs, it's sad, but that doesn't mean we all should make it law that everyone should believe in Islam.
If a homosexual gets harassed because of homosexual preference, it's sad, but that doens't mean we all should make it law that everyone should believe in gay marriage.
Gay marriage is just a hop skip and a jump away from the Supreme Court so Homosexual Marriage is really a moot point. The high court is going to decide a law suit by two California Homosexual Men against Prop 8 , so wait with baited breath for the outcome. I think that it all a " tempest in a tea cup myself " California Domestic Partnership gave Gays ALL OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF " HETEROSUXUAL MARRIAGE " the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEED TO GIVE CA - DP " it's share " of CIVIL RIGHTS , and that my friends would make both " INSTITUTIONS TOTALLY EQUAL place your efforts there.
Personal attacks are against tos. Also, fecal matter is filthy and should not be handled nor consumed; some people find it extremely yucky to do so. They have rights to their opinion just as you do yours. No one has to accept anyone.
What the hell does this have to do with his post? There was no "attack"
You are obviously obsessed with alleged gay anal sex and btw this is not their only option. Oh and heteros do the back door too, suppose that is OK?
RLarson,
Do you have any proof that babies are born with orientations in tact? - Like a new completely different anatomy book?
Gay rights do affect me & others. Already, others' rights have been infringed on where gay marriage has been ennacted...
Children have the right to not be taught homosexuality in school. Yet, in places where gay marriage has been enacted, these rights have been infringed upon.
Freshmen were told not to tell their parents about a pro-gay seminar & were required to sign a confidentiality agreement (Derrfield, Illinois Mar. 2007).
In March, 2007, a Massachusetts high school banned parents from attending a seminar for students on how they can know they are homosexual.
In October, 2008, First graders (6 year-old students) were taken on a field trip to watch their lesbian teacher's wedding.
In Oct 2008, a Hayward CA public elementary school celebrated "Coming Out Day."
Also, others' rights have been infringed upon in favor of supporting gay rights.
In April 2008, an Albuquerque photographer was fined over $6,000 for refusing to be hired to photograph a lesbian couple's commitment ceremony.
In May, 2008, a black administrator was fired from the U of Toledo, Ohio, for writing an editorial objecting to the comparison of black discrimination to same-sex marriage.
An intolerant opponent of Proposition 8 even violently attacked & injured a Proposition supporter in Oct. 2008.
On November 19, 2008, eHarmony, a Christian-based matching service was forced by New Jersey's Division on Civil Rights to provide website matching services for homosexuals.
Homosexual ALREADY have rights under common law marriage & cohabitation or reciprocal partnership agreements. Redefining marriage is trying to impose a minority's belief on a majority, forcing social acceptance through the legal system & is causing harm to others in the process.
Please link to your sources for the above anti-gay propaganda.
I remember most of the original stories, and what you have posted are deliberate distortions.
Why are you so eager to believe and parrot anything you find on anti-gay propaganda websites without bothering to check whether it's true or not?
You really do seem to have a big problem with gay people.
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Gay Marriage Is Becoming A Moot Point
