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People have commented that they know of communities in which people are of one religion but this should not imply that they believe all of the teachings of that religion.
There is some defect in my constitution such that I cannot understand this attitude, especially in religions that are 'all or nothing' 'we are the only ones' 'we are apart from the rest' types of religion.
I feel that I have to be true to the God I know of and true to myself. What else is there, really, but the God you know and you? To profess a belief in someone else's God is worshiping strange gods, is it not? How can you follow a God who is a stranger to you, whose dictates you believe are false?
I also would not want to be a head that that was counted when a religion that I did not agree with boasted about the numbers of people in their congregation.
If you are not true to yourself, it becomes very easy to be untruthful to other men. If I start lying to myself, I will be living a life that is a falsehood. These things grow and magnify in the consciousness and can cause nothing but harm.
Like that poor clergyman that I referred to who became an atheist, feeling such guilt about his lack of responsibility and insight in leading his flock down the wrong path. It took a lot of guts to stand before those very people and make his declaration. But he had the intestinal fortitude not to allow a sin(?) to perpetuate once he came to his awakening.
The problem, as I see it, is that he must never have seen the God that was greater than his, one, religion. The God who wrote the holy book must also have other things on His mind, other peoples to talk to, other planets to make, etc.
If he left his religion, why should he also leave God? Because so much of his religion was caught up in dogma. Because, without the dogma, there was nothing.
So, now he is a great mind and lectures and discusses with people in the manner of Hitchens (God is NOT Great) - the auther. Interesting, but bitter and, I hate to say it, sometimes sounding petty and cruel. But those who know him know the cruelty he speaks to others is really directed against himself as some self-inflicted punishment for the wrong he perceives that he did to the men who followed him.
Many people become angry when hearing him speak, but perhaps that, too, is some self-inflicted punishment.
God bless him.
Truth is the start of peace.
Some religions are impossible to follow. They turn their followers into hypocrates. This leaves the flock knowing that they are 'sinning' all of the time, which leads them to have to seek forgiveness constantly, joining them to the church forever.
I don't think God plays these games with humanity. Other men do.
People have commented that they know of communities in which people are of one religion but this should not imply that they believe all of the teachings of that religion.
There is some defect in my constitution such that I cannot understand this attitude, especially in religions that are 'all or nothing' 'we are the only ones' 'we are apart from the rest' types of religion.
I feel that I have to be true to the God I know of and true to myself. What else is there, really, but the God you know and you? To profess a belief in someone else's God is worshiping strange gods, is it not? How can you follow a God who is a stranger to you, whose dictates you believe are false?
I also would not want to be a head that that was counted when a religion that I did not agree with boasted about the numbers of people in their congregation.
If you are not true to yourself, it becomes very easy to be untruthful to other men. If I start lying to myself, I will be living a life that is a falsehood. These things grow and magnify in the consciousness and can cause nothing but harm.
Like that poor clergyman that I referred to who became an atheist, feeling such guilt about his lack of responsibility and insight in leading his flock down the wrong path. It took a lot of guts to stand before those very people and make his declaration. But he had the intestinal fortitude not to allow a sin(?) to perpetuate once he came to his awakening.
The problem, as I see it, is that he must never have seen the God that was greater than his, one, religion. The God who wrote the holy book must also have other things on His mind, other peoples to talk to, other planets to make, etc.
If he left his religion, why should he also leave God? Because so much of his religion was caught up in dogma. Because, without the dogma, there was nothing.
So, now he is a great mind and lectures and discusses with people in the manner of Hitchens (God is NOT Great) - the auther. Interesting, but bitter and, I hate to say it, sometimes sounding petty and cruel. But those who know him know the cruelty he speaks to others is really directed against himself as some self-inflicted punishment for the wrong he perceives that he did to the men who followed him.
Many people become angry when hearing him speak, but perhaps that, too, is some self-inflicted punishment.
God bless him.
Truth is the start of peace.
Some religions are impossible to follow. They turn their followers into hypocrates. This leaves the flock knowing that they are 'sinning' all of the time, which leads them to have to seek forgiveness constantly, joining them to the church forever.
I don't think God plays these games with humanity. Other men do.
What does this have to do with the extremely dubious and most likely DNC inspired controversy regarding Mitt Romney’s candidacy for the Presidency, his religion, and the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
Maybe you should start your own thread entitled the “The General Musings of Goldengrain.”
I have a question: Did your father convert to the LDS faith and move to Utah? I ask this only because it is unusual that your father would be LDS and you are not.
My mother took my sisters and I away from my Dad when I was little, but not for the typical reasons for doing so in a Mormon household like being oppressed as a woman. My father was actually born Lutheran but converted with his parents when he was a teenager. This I suppose explains why he even tells me the things that he has learned while working for the church. Just like all religions there has been mistakes made in the past and the best way is to ignore them and cover them up unfortunately. Though, the Mormon church has admitted they were mistaken about polygomy and know now that it is wrong just like Christians don't admittedly practice segregation.
Sorry, it's hard for me not to cynical about most religions, but I do understand there importance in society and the core values of all religions such as to love everyone and be honest is something I do agree with.
[T]he Mormon church has admitted they were mistaken about polygomy and know now that it is wrong
Just to set the record straight; the LDS Church has never stated that polygamy was wrong. The Church no longer sanctions plural marriage because there are now laws prohibiting the practice, and the Church has a core value which states it will obey the law of the land. I would venture to say that if laws prohibiting plural marriage had never been passed, the Church would still sanction the practice.
What a fascinating thread and such a variety of topics covered!
I'd like to add a couple of observances of my own.
Firstly I'm puzzled that it should be a problem with non-Mormons if a Mormon became president and I'm confused by the assumption someone made that he would not be able to 'render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's' when one of the basic tenets of LDS belief states:
"We believe in being subject to Kings, Presidents, rulers and magistrates, in obeying, honouring and sustaining the law."
In other words it is not LDS practice to teach people to go against the laws of the land so why would an LDS president be any more odd than a Catholic president or an atheist president? His religion and his position in government don't have to be mutually exclusive. If his religion is likely to affect his judgement at all then it is likely to be in matters of honesty and integrity.
I'm surprised at the generalisation of Mormons. I know some unpleasant people who are LDS but that doesn't make all LDS unpleasant people. I know some hypocrites and I know some people who are very proud of being 'holier than thou' but that isn't because they are taught to behave that way. They are taught the very opposite but like people in all walks of life and all religions (or none) Mormons are human beings too.
I've never known Mormon children be forbidden to play with non-Mormon children. There would be some very lonely Mormon children around here if that were so.
Mormons used to be encouraged to get people to use the term 'LDS' in preference because Mormon was a person and it did lead to the assumption that Jesus Christ was less important than Mormon - Christ himself had said that his church should be named after him not after another person (like we get St. Paul's Church and things like that). However, in recent years President Hinckley has conceded that people get confused and sometimes think there are 2 different churches - the Mormons and the LDS, so he has said the name should be accepted but not officially. So this year's Helping Hands tabards had 'Mormon' on them as well as the full church name.
I found this list quite fascinating:
. God was once a man like us.
Yep, that is LDS teaching.
. God has a tangible body of flesh and bone.
Yep, that's doctrine too.
. God lives on a planet near the star Kolob.
I don't think this is deep doctrine. There's even a Hymn "If I could hie to Kolob"
. God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her.
Yep, there's a hymn about that too "Oh my Father"
. We can become like God and rule over our own universe.
That used to come early on in lessons.
. There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.
So did that.
. Jesus and Satan ("Lucifer") are brothers, and they are our brothers - we are all spirit children of Heavenly Father
Yep, Lucifer was a beloved spirit child of Heavenly Father but he fell from grace when he rebelled. I believe that is Biblical. No secret to the LDS teaching that every living thing (animal, plant and human) existed in spirit form before existing on earth and that we are all spirit children of God the Father. Jesus (Jehovah as he was then) was the first born.
. Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife.
Well, Jesus was half human and half divine. Human by virtue of his human mother but he did not have a human father.
. We should not pray to Jesus, nor try to feel a personal relationship with him.
I've never heard anything about not seeking a personal relationship with Jesus but he himself told us pray to the Father, but we pray in the name of Jesus Christ.
. The "Lord" ("Jehovah") in the Old Testament is the being named Jesus in the New Testament, but different from "God the Father" ("Elohim").
Yep. Jehovah was the pre-existence name of Jesus. He was only given the name Jesus after his birth on earth.
. In the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife.
I don't know of this ever being specifically taught but it seems quite logical. Bear in mind too that polygamy was not unknown in Biblical times. Joseph (of the amazing technicolour dreamcoat) didn't have the same mother as 10 of his brothers.
. Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life (whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life.
Yes we lived as spirits before coming to earth but what the criteria were/are for where we are born on earth and what race, creed etc we are born into I do not know. When Jesus was asked by his disciples whether it was the blind man's own pre-existant sins or his parents' sins to blame for him being born blind his reply was that it was nothing to do with sin. Our status in life might be for some higher purpose that we do not yet realise.
. Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.
Lamanites were distinguished by a darker skin than the Nephites but I have never known a dark skinned righteous person to become lighter skinned.
. The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere.
Jackson County Missouri.
. Not only will human beings be resurrected to eternal life, but also all animals - everything that has ever lived on earth - will be resurrected and dwell in heaven.
Yep. It would be pretty pointless otherwise.
. Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.
Never heard that one.
. Mormons should avoid traveling on water, since Satan rules the waters.
I remember missionaries used to be told not to travel on water. I don't know if they are still told that. I do remember one guy who was very nervous about eating at a floating restaurant on the Thames even though it was very firmly anchored to the bank and had a permanent walkway to the shore.
Maybe someone else knows more about this.
. The sun receives its light from the star Kolob.
Haven't heard that. I always thought the sun was an independant star just as Kolob is.
. If a Gentile becomes Mormon, the Holy Ghost actually purges his Gentile blood and replaces it with Israelite blood.
Certainly never heard that one before. What happens when someone leaves the church? Does their blood change back again?
Yep, I believe crap covers it nicely. I wonder when someone is going to do a story on Methodist, Baptist, and Protestant men who were members of the KKK and killed innocent blacks or burned down black churches as thieves in the night. Hmm, probably never. Those guys were just individuals, but if a Mormon is involved, you can believe the impartial Press will tell you the whole Church is involved.
Funny..up until at least 1990, Mormons depicted Christian ministers as evil and of the devil in their temple play and movie. Yet when the truth is told about them, they are in an uproar and want to hide the facts. Yes, there was the Inquisition hundreds of years ago, and Baptists used to be slave owners, but EVERYONE knows about it and both churches have admitted it. Mormons try to hide every blemish from their record, including the real reason Joseph Smith was killed, and other parts of their history.
A little research does wonders for a person's soul....
Funny..up until at least 1990, Mormons depicted Christian ministers as evil and of the devil in their temple play and movie. Yet when the truth is told about them, they are in an uproar and want to hide the facts. Yes, there was the Inquisition hundreds of years ago, and Baptists used to be slave owners, but EVERYONE knows about it and both churches have admitted it. Mormons try to hide every blemish from their record, including the real reason Joseph Smith was killed, and other parts of their history.
A little research does wonders for a person's soul....
Apparently you have done some faulty research, because ministers have never been mentioned in the Temple, and I have been a member of the Church well before 1990.
Next, the only uproar is the timing of the Mountain Meadows Massacre Movie during the candidacy of Mitt Romney for President and how the Press harps on an event that occurred over one hundred years ago and ties it to Mitt’s religion.
Now, clue me in. What was the “REAL” reason Joseph Smith was murdered? Hopefully, you won’t tell us you heard it from your grandmother, we’ve been hearing a lot of that lately.
Yes. You will often hear a member of a particular religion lambasting those amongst them who fleece the public, or fellow believers, or who are some other sort of hypocrate.
The reason why Mormons get criticized from without is because they so seldom will be open about who and what they think may be wrong within their religion.
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