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Women are not supposed to enjoy sex. They are there for the pleasure of man and should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, it is true, ask any fundie.
We are orthodox Catholics not "Fundies." I can't seem to find the passage but Pope John Paul II was fairly clear women should enjoy sex as much as the man. This is what I was taught, by parents who reject contraception, as soon as the issue was ever talked about to me.
My grandparents on my mother's side were devout Catholics, and produced thirteen children, and some of those children followed in her footsteps...By the time she was 80 (in 1980) she had 104 direct descendents...I have no idea how many there are now, but there are a lot more...
We are orthodox Catholics not "Fundies." I can't seem to find the passage but Pope John Paul II was fairly clear women should enjoy sex as much as the man. This is what I was taught, by parents who reject contraception, as soon as the issue was ever talked about to me.
So you take advice from a celibate male on the anatomy and workings of the female body?
The whole concept on non contraception is stupid. If sex was only for procreation, our females would go on heat like other animals do and then all us males would be lining up to share our seed. This is not the case.
Because we have learned to live longer than we are supposed to, it is no longer necessary to have more than two kids (replacements). The RCC is so backward it condemns the use of condoms to counter the spread of AIDS and HIV.
As both my wife and I had decent education wrt biology and sex ed, when we decided to have kids, she went off the pill, we monitored and calculated her ovulation cycle and she fell pregnant in the first month after stopping the pill with both our children.
Interestingly, opponents of contraception often respond in like manner: that it devalues women, that it promotes casual sex which is harmful to women, etc., etc.
Oh, I believe in birth control. As with many things though, it's a matter of personal choice.
I don't feel that it de-values women in the least. Actually, it gives us the freedom to have sex without worry, just like men.
So you take advice from a celibate male on the anatomy and workings of the female body?
One of the earliest written descriptions of female orgasm we have is from a celibate woman.
I also get my facts on the Planet Mars from people who have never set foot on it. Or on the Neolithic era from people who never lived without electricity. People can have some understanding of things they do not personally experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA
The whole concept on non contraception is stupid. If sex was only for procreation, our females would go on heat like other animals do and then all us males would be lining up to share our seed. This is not the case.
This would argue that contraception should happen naturally to us. And in any event I never said sex was only for procreation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA
Because we have learned to live longer than we are supposed to, it is no longer necessary to have more than two kids (replacements). The RCC is so backward it condemns the use of condoms to counter the spread of AIDS and HIV.
This is part of why I think it was unwise to discuss this in a general audience.
However why should people only do what's necessary for replacement? I'm a fifth child myself. If that's what people want what's it to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA
As both my wife and I had decent education wrt biology and sex ed, when we decided to have kids, she went off the pill, we monitored and calculated her ovulation cycle and she fell pregnant in the first month after stopping the pill with both our children.
Catholics know what ovulation is. Some of us avoid sex during it to reduce the chance of pregnancy. It's the complete removal of sex from procreation that is objected to.
But as I said this is getting into specific Catholic things. I could try to explain them to you, but I don't think you're actually interested.
Catholics know what ovulation is. Some of us avoid sex during it to reduce the chance of pregnancy. It's the complete removal of sex from procreation that is objected to.
AKA rhythm method and is not foolproof as this still leaves a risk of pregnancy not to mention that the female produces pheromones during ovulation which attract the male to do his deed.
All that BC does it makes the matter of getting pregnant elective instead of chance. The fact that man has discovered the intricacies of human reproduction and ways to manage it should not be overridden by archaic standards derived from myths where the process was deemed to only have been a male dominated process, i.e. the injection of copious amounts of sperm which the female them made into a baby. You need only read your bible to see this is how they thought it happened. The ovum was only discovered in the late 19th century by Karl Ernst von Baer.
But as I said this is getting into specific Catholic things. I could try to explain them to you, but I don't think you're actually interested.
It is not just a RCC thing, you have the quiverfull folk who are not RC's.
As for my interest in this, the world really does not need a large population that will lead to what China was forced to do with one child per couple. But I guess it is fine living in the US where the comfort of a home, food, plasma screens are all the rage while infants in Africa starve to death that did not ask to be born.
Do you think contraception is a sin? A grave one capable of sending the sinner to hell? Or is it moral, or even commendable?
Let's assume that we are talking about non-abortifacient contraceptives.
I am Catholic, and although I struggle with this particular teaching (despite not being in a marriage or sexually active), I assent to it. Here's what the Catechism of the Catholic Church (quoting a Vatican document) has to say about it (CCC 2370):
The Catholic Church teaches that all "artificial" birth control methods - the Pill, condoms, tubal ligation, vasectomies, even withdrawal - are grave matter, and done with full consent and knowledge of their gravity, are mortal sins, which if left unrepented until death, bring eternal damnation. This is a sobering thought.
Interestingly, most all representatives of both the Catholic and Protestant churches were in unanimous agreement on the subject until the 1930's. John Calvin asserted that "deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring." and Martin Luther himself said it was "far more atrocious than incest and adultery." The traditional, rational foundation for the Catholic Church's teaching is that the primary end of sex is procreation, ordained by nature and thereby God; to use an artifice that intentionally impedes this end is to act against nature, hence perverting the act and turning it in to something akin to mutual masturbation (which is also condemned by the Catholic Church).
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this matter, which is even controversial among Catholics themselves. Modern society is more or less based on the idea that couples will avoid pregnancy, and presents special challenges to non-contracepting couples, even those use natural family planning (NFP) techniques, which are condoned by the church for "just" reasons.
So when do yuo think it was that someone first dreamed up that "sin". When the world population was around 150 million?
I Also the irreligious author S. Fowler Wright opposed contraception as "unnatural" and because he felt it would lead to an aging society.
Fowler may have been a Luddite, but he was absolutely right about the aging society thing. Pretty much all of the developed countries are aging, with more and more old people to support, and fewer young people to support them. I'm not advocating against contraception....but we sure have traded one problem for another.
I think to look down on contraception is to encourage the birth of many chidren into homes where they`can`t be cared for, or were never wanted to begin with...it supports poverty and starvation, and is absolutely absurd.....Maybe that`s why the catholic church is loosing so many of it`s members.
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