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Actually I'm not doing that which you accuse me of. If you read my posts around here you would know I don't believe in God using magic; supernatural, maybe, but not magic.
*Disclaimer: The use of the word "fact" in the following refutation refers only to it being factual that Eusebius believes in it and should not be confused with factual reality in any way.
It is a fact* that if the entire world was flooded in 40 days and 40 nights, requiring a global rainfaill average of over a thousand inches per day, the ONLY way that could happen is through God using magic.
It is a fact* that God deliberately made it rain to deliberately kill humankind ... which means it was NOT a natural occurance, and since rainfall like that does NOT occur in nature, God would need to use magic in order to make it happen.
It is a fact* that things were massively different before the flood than they are now. Which means that, in order for there to be such a massive change, God would have had to, once again, use magic.
NONE of this bunk occurred all by itself with God merely watching impassively onwards. Now, I know you probably hate the idea of me comparing the actions of God to the spells cast by Sabrina the Teenaged Witch, but regardless, they ARE, in fact, one and the same. Just because God can use magic to commit genocide and Sabrina can't (or can she?) doesn't change the fact that they are both using magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
I'm the only one here trying to use logic, reason and science and common sense.
No, you're not. Far from it. Very far from it. First, you're basing all of your assertions on a belief that the Bible is literally true, essentially a history book, and we should all accept that every ridiculous story in there actually happened. So right away, even before we get to any specifics, you're already behind the logic and common sense curve.
Secondly, things like global floods and human females pumping out babies faster than water flows over the Niagara (yeah, as if Eve spent her whole life on her back) simply do not occur in nature. Those things require magic. OR ... suddenly going from a 1000 year life-span to a 40 year-life span (and 40 was a wisened graybeard back then) could not happen in nature and thus requires magic. Either way, magic. There is absolutely NO escaping it.
And there is no logic and common sense when you believe that all of these magical things occurred when, in any other context, you wouldn't believe in magic. You only accept it as true within the framework of religion, but faeries, genies, gremlins, and unicorns ... ha! Positively ridiculous, right? Because those things have nothing to do with religion!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
I've been trying to get you folks to prove to me using all those that some single celled amoebas got together and made fish which turned magically into chimps which turned magically into humans. If anyone is using magic it is you guys.
Please, for the love of all that is holy, go read a book about evolution. A real one, not some garbage book by Kent Hovind or other apologist. Go find a science textbook on evolution. Read it. Understand it. THEN come back here and try to argue about amoebas "magically" turning into fish. It gets really tiresome listening to every creationist Christian with a Bible thinking he can stand toe-to-toe with the scientific community when they barely have any grasp whatsoever of what evolution is or how it even works. How many times have we all heard, "but it's only a theory!" or "evolution can't explain how life started so ... God!" And now, listen to you, trying to summarize the entirety of evolution in a single sentence. Wow! Better not let the textbook companies know that; they'll stand to lose billions in sales if you can explain evolution with the space provided by a book of matches!
Bottom line, few people are buying the wares you're hawking. Like it or not, even most Christians are well beyond believing every story in the Bible is true. All you're doing is throwing around unsubstantiated fantasies about how earth "might" have been before the flood when none of it is even supported by the Bible, much less the fires of your imagination.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Just as I thought, you can't prove your case so you have to resort to being cute.
WHY would anyone waste his or her time? I'm certainly not. You're making stuff up and somehow we have to disprove it all or it becomes fact? Seriously? And you think that's how it works? And, on top of everything else, you have already rejected the science that we could use to prove you wrong. If that wasn't the case, then you wouldn't even believe in what you're saying!
Ugh, have you no conception at all of how insane this all is? That's why we don't bother hauling out our science books or clicking on our bookmarked science websites during these kinds of debates. Why bother? You've already rejected it all. Are we supposed to scour the world's knowledge looking for some OTHER reason why you're wrong? Oh, here's one ... I can disprove you because Zeus said so. Yeah. Now prove that Zeus didn't say so. I'll wait right here.
I see.
Eve was created out of a female organ. Yes that's better than being created out of a rib. So much more believable.
While Eve was breast feeding her 16 little ones all day from her magical endlessly milk producing breasts, while being impossibly pregnant with the next 8 on the way, Adam must have been having a right old time of it keeping an eye on the other 14 other babies, constantly looking after what was coming out of the other end, meanwhile preparing lots of meals for Eve who will have certainly needed the sustenance in order to keep all this going. I bet Adam just couldn't wait for year 3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
*Disclaimer: The use of the word "fact" in the following refutation refers only to it being factual that Eusebius believes in it and should not be confused with factual reality in any way.
It is a fact* that if the entire world was flooded in 40 days and 40 nights, requiring a global rainfaill average of over a thousand inches per day, the ONLY way that could happen is through God using magic.
It is a fact* that God deliberately made it rain to deliberately kill humankind ... which means it was NOT a natural occurance, and since rainfall like that does NOT occur in nature, God would need to use magic in order to make it happen.
It is a fact* that things were massively different before the flood than they are now. Which means that, in order for there to be such a massive change, God would have had to, once again, use magic.
NONE of this bunk occurred all by itself with God merely watching impassively onwards. Now, I know you probably hate the idea of me comparing the actions of God to the spells cast by Sabrina the Teenaged Witch, but regardless, they ARE, in fact, one and the same. Just because God can use magic to commit genocide and Sabrina can't (or can she?) doesn't change the fact that they are both using magic.
No, you're not. Far from it. Very far from it. First, you're basing all of your assertions on a belief that the Bible is literally true, essentially a history book, and we should all accept that every ridiculous story in there actually happened. So right away, even before we get to any specifics, you're already behind the logic and common sense curve.
Secondly, things like global floods and human females pumping out babies faster than water flows over the Niagara (yeah, as if Eve spent her whole life on her back) simply do not occur in nature. Those things require magic. OR ... suddenly going from a 1000 year life-span to a 40 year-life span (and 40 was a wisened graybeard back then) could not happen in nature and thus requires magic. Either way, magic. There is absolutely NO escaping it.
And there is no logic and common sense when you believe that all of these magical things occurred when, in any other context, you wouldn't believe in magic. You only accept it as true within the framework of religion, but faeries, genies, gremlins, and unicorns ... ha! Positively ridiculous, right? Because those things have nothing to do with religion!
Please, for the love of all that is holy, go read a book about evolution. A real one, not some garbage book by Kent Hovind or other apologist. Go find a science textbook on evolution. Read it. Understand it. THEN come back here and try to argue about amoebas "magically" turning into fish. It gets really tiresome listening to every creationist Christian with a Bible thinking he can stand toe-to-toe with the scientific community when they barely have any grasp whatsoever of what evolution is or how it even works. How many times have we all heard, "but it's only a theory!" or "evolution can't explain how life started so ... God!" And now, listen to you, trying to summarize the entirety of evolution in a single sentence. Wow! Better not let the textbook companies know that; they'll stand to lose billions in sales if you can explain evolution with the space provided by a book of matches!
Bottom line, few people are buying the wares you're hawking. Like it or not, even most Christians are well beyond believing every story in the Bible is true. All you're doing is throwing around unsubstantiated fantasies about how earth "might" have been before the flood when none of it is even supported by the Bible, much less the fires of your imagination. WHY would anyone waste his or her time? I'm certainly not. You're making stuff up and somehow we have to disprove it all or it becomes fact? Seriously? And you think that's how it works? And, on top of everything else, you have already rejected the science that we could use to prove you wrong. If that wasn't the case, then you wouldn't even believe in what you're saying!
Ugh, have you no conception at all of how insane this all is? That's why we don't bother hauling out our science books or clicking on our bookmarked science websites during these kinds of debates. Why bother? You've already rejected it all. Are we supposed to scour the world's knowledge looking for some OTHER reason why you're wrong? Oh, here's one ... I can disprove you because Zeus said so. Yeah. Now prove that Zeus didn't say so. I'll wait right here.
Cruithne and Shirina . . . I love your posts almost as much as Rifleman's(RIP). Rifleman (bless his soul) eventually figured out Eusebius and his ploys when Eusebius posited that Noah invented freeze-dried food to feed everyone. Rifle's posts became even more humorous after that. (I dearly miss my old friend.) For Eusebius magic= supernatural and his faith in God makes him immune to any natural refutations. He simply tries to imagine ANY conceivable way things could have been as reported . . . simply because he believes his faith in God requires it. That will not change . . . so enjoy the repartee as Rifleman did. I certainly would enjoy reading it.
I see.
Eve was created out of a female organ. Yes that's better than being created out of a rib. So much more believable.
While Eve was breast feeding her 16 little ones all day from her magical endlessly milk producing breasts, while being impossibly pregnant with the next 8 on the way, Adam must have been having a right old time of it keeping an eye on the other 14 other babies, constantly looking after what was coming out of the other end, meanwhile preparing lots of meals for Eve who will have certainly needed the sustenance in order to keep all this going. I bet Adam just couldn't wait for year 3.
You are transferring your inabilities to Eve. If you are 3 foot tall, do you think she should be? If you are white, do you think she should be? What if her breasts could hold a gallon each? or more? I'm not saying that is the way it was. I'm just saying it is improper to transfer our modern-day incapabilities to those prior to the flood.
Adam was created a hermaphrodite. God put Adam to sleep and then took the female organ out from him and built woman around it. This is why when a man and woman have coitus they become one.
I have nothing, this level of utter and total stupidity leaves me speechless.
*Disclaimer: The use of the word "fact" in the following refutation refers only to it being factual that Eusebius believes in it and should not be confused with factual reality in any way.
It is a fact* that if the entire world was flooded in 40 days and 40 nights, requiring a global rainfaill average of over a thousand inches per day, the ONLY way that could happen is through God using magic.
We have to start unraveling your misunderstanding somewhere. Let's start here:
Please prove your "fact" that it would have to average over a thousand inches per day. Why do you think that to be the case?
Aside from the fact they could have had Teflon back then *grin*,
It is possible that under very ideal conditions which they had, each girl could have had 6 or more children per 9 months. I doubt they waited for the girls back then to go through school then college and then get married. They probably waited till they hit puberty and the cycle repeated.
Suppose A&E had 3 boys 3 girls per year.
By year 10 A & E could have 60 or more children.
Then those 60 children by, oh around year 12 to 13 would have 180 children and A & E an additional 12 or so children.
12 to 13 years later, those former children would have around 540 children in their year one. But the original 60 children would still be producing around 180 children per year for 12 to 13 years and A & E around 6 children a year or around 98 children.
If Cain killed Abel when he was around 30 years old, how many humans could there have been who would want to take out Cain for killing Abel? And what if Cain killed Abel when Cain was over 100 years old?
What's funny is evolutionists believe that if the Bible is correct, with inbreeding there would be all kinds of problems.
But the same problem exists for evolutionists. A couple single celled amoebas got together and mapped out the whole genome for all the millions of different animals from the little microscopic bed bug to the dinosaur. They got together and made fish, with scales, eyes etc. and then one or two of these fish decided to leave the pond. These fish struggled and struggled and limping along until it really REALLY REALLY got tired of limping along so it miraculously grew some legs! Oh and it replaced its gills with a nose because it really REALLY REALLY wanted to breath outside of the pond. Then these two fish bred and bred and somehow produced chimps because these fish really REALLY REALLY wanted to climb trees and eat bananas. Then through inbreeding these chimps produced humans.
"Wants" have nothing to do with evolution.
Evolution does not say that humans produced chimps or chimps produced humans. It says chimps and humans share common ancestors.
Do you have any evidence that ancient humans ever produced litters of six children?
We have to start unraveling your misunderstanding somewhere. Let's start here:
Please prove your "fact" that it would have to average over a thousand inches per day. Why do you think that to be the case?
Oh here we go ...
Yeah, this is science, even if basic science.
Gee, in 40 days and 40 nights, it would have to rain evenly over the entire globe (hah, requiring more magic to accomplish), how much do YOU think it would have to rain to get the water level in upwards of 30,000 feet?
I'll get you started. If it rained 10 inches per day, there would only be 400 inches (or about 33 and a third feet) of water on the ground. Wow, we only have 29,970 feet to go! So keep the water coming. How much more water per day would it have to rain?
Gee, in 40 days and 40 nights, it would have to rain evenly over the entire globe (hah, requiring more magic to accomplish), how much do YOU think it would have to rain to get the water level in upwards of 30,000 feet?
I'll get you started. If it rained 10 inches per day, there would only be 400 inches (or about 33 and a third feet) of water on the ground. Wow, we only have 29,970 feet to go! So keep the water coming. How much more water per day would it have to rain?
Ah, okay, I see the problem. Why do you think there was even a Mt. Everest in the days of Noah? or any mountains that tall?
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