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It matters because if there was no God there would be no morals, ethics, purpose, meaning or personhood status.
There would absolutely be what we see as morals, ethics, etc. Those exist because we are a societal animal. We require "getting along" in order to remain a society. That involves not ticking anybody else off too much. So we play nicely; in other words -- we "play fair."
In animals (which obviously don't believe in God) that are societal, we see societal structure, or your "personhood" (this one is higher, this one is lower, this one is important and realizes her importance, this one is an infant and must be treated tenderly, etc.). We definitely see ethics (one member does something awful to another member, and is kicked out of the group, for instance).
These things definitely exist without a concept of God, unless non-human animals do have a concept of God that we don't realize they have, at least the animals that live in groups/societally.
You've read that, huh? Have you thought about it? I'm just curious; most want that option and lean forward whenever Shirley McLean speaks of her personal experiences (how do we know she's telling the truth? Because we want to believe it? I'd say so... since after all, who's ever going to confirm any of this? As with all things spiritually supernatural, no-one has ever come forward with any credible proof; it's always some etherial foo-foh-rah and claims.)
(Oh and BTW, who's to say you won't come back as a dandelion happily growing in the freeway median, on the 405 freeway in SoCal, about 3 miles N. of the South Coast Plaza/Costa Mesa exit?)
Yes, I`ve read it and thought about it. You`re right, there is no 100% physical truth. Some people have, under hypnosis, had memeories that were proven to be true. Also, there have been children that have talked about being another person in another life, that was researched and found to be very accurate. But I haven`t talked to these people personally to know 100% sure if it`s all true. For all I know, men walking on the moon could have been a hoax. I wasn`t there to actually physically see it.
I don`t know 100% that William Shakespeare was a real person. I wasn`t alive to know him personally. How do you know your reality isn`t a dream? How do we know a lot of things 100%? But I don`t rule out some things either just because I don`t quite understand something or know 100% for sure that it isn`t true. Do you know 100% that reincarnation isn`t true? Are you 100% sure there isn`t a supreme intelligence? Could it be you just don`t want to believe it?
There would absolutely be what we see as morals, ethics, etc. Those exist because we are a societal animal. We require "getting along" in order to remain a society. That involves not ticking anybody else off too much. So we play nicely; in other words -- we "play fair."
In animals (which obviously don't believe in God) that are societal, we see societal structure, or your "personhood" (this one is higher, this one is lower, this one is important and realizes her importance, this one is an infant and must be treated tenderly, etc.). We definitely see ethics (one member does something awful to another member, and is kicked out of the group, for instance).
These things definitely exist without a concept of God, unless non-human animals do have a concept of God that we don't realize they have, at least the animals that live in groups/societally.
That's just an asummption that isn't true, sorry. If I assume that everthing happened because of evolution, then evolution explains everything, it's circular logic. In actuality there is no foundation for morality, personhood, logic, reason, purpose and meaning in a naturalistic big bang and evolution.
That's just an asummption that isn't true, sorry. If
It is absolutely not an assumption that societal animals have a hierarchies, have their own personalities and are aware of others' quirks ("personhood"), only allow certain behavior -- particularly behavior that will benefit the group (is "good") and will maintain harmony (again, "goodness"), and that they have their code of ethics (i.e. my example of a "bad" member of the group being kicked out; also, sick members being taken care of and brought food, etc.).
How is any of that assumption?
What did evolution have to do with any of what I had to say, btw? I was talking about how animals, who presumably don't believe in a "god," absolutely do avoid conflict and work for the "higher" group good. Where does evolution fit into that? It has to do with people right now and social animals right now. Whether they and we evolved to be this way, or were pounded out of dirt by God to be this way...we're all this way.
That's just an asummption that isn't true, sorry. If I assume that everthing happened because of evolution, then evolution explains everything, it's circular logic. In actuality there is no foundation for morality, personhood, logic, reason, purpose and meaning in a naturalistic big bang and evolution.
Let me see if I can explain this as simple as possible. If someone else can explain it better, please do. One thing you are forgetting about evolution is that a key component is adaptation.
Over time we have adapted concepts that work better with being social creatures. It's simple seeing that cause + effect = learn. If you fail to learn you fail to adapt.
Wow, I never realized how hard it is to explain evolution in laymens(learner) terms.
It matters because if there was no God there would be no morals, ethics, purpose, meaning or personhood status.
you believers like to think you are of higher morals standing than those who dont believe
quite honestly that is a insult to the many caring, honest,kind, respectfull ,loving folks who dont follow your fascination with a invisable man in the sky who is in charge of everything .
a feeling of what is right and wrong and a understanding of the preciousness of each and every human does not need a imaginary super hero to to manifest itself .
something you self rightousness holier then thou morons cant seem to grasp
better to put you own house in order first before you try put on a superior hat and look down on others
to end going to church ( being seen ) every sunday does not you by that action a good person make
reading the bible does not make you rightous anymore then sitting in a garage makes you a car [+] Rate this post positively
Mind over Chatter: Has it ever occured to you that perhaps our ethics are a part of evolution? Our brains evolved to the point where we could see that ethics and societal rules are necessary.
Absolutely right on, northstar! I'd fight strongly to have placed into the basic curriculum, at the junior and senior high school levels, well-developed and detailed courses in comparative religions and spiritual philosophies, taught in the same year as an intro-science class, the two being part of a basic, mandatory breadth & depth course set (possibly alongside managing financial issues, including credit? Yikes Ah-Mighty! These kids know nothing about handling their money!)
If this were the case, we could put all this current in-fighting about the science curriculum aside, since the Christians could have their day in court, so to speak. Not sure they'd appreciate having Islam or Buddhism intro'd without bias though... they essentially love bias!
I have always wanted this. Good to know others feel the same way. (couldn't agree more about financial classes!!!)
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Bingo, and quite generous of you, raison! Yup: keep personal religions out of your role as a publicly elected official. We should never vote them in (at least I don't) because of their personal religious beliefs, which makes the current uproar about Mitt Romney's Mormon upbringing all the more fractious and irrelevant, except to the moral majority Christian interferons. Personally, Mormons have always been so very polite to me, unlike Christians, who can be so durned insistent and righteous.
"I AM holier than thou!"
In the realm of politics, I could care less what your religious beliefs are as long as they aren't your deciding factor for policies and laws. A politicians religious beliefs should not a public matter or reason to vote for that person or not.
And they can be as holy as they want, as long as they leave me out of it.
Mind over Chatter: Has it ever occured to you that perhaps our ethics are a part of evolution? Our brains evolved to the point where we could see that ethics and societal rules are necessary.
of course its accured to him but you know the old saying never let FACTS get in the way of religious dogma
those of extreme faith cant bare the thought that the world would get on alright everybody would be happy ,free and peacefull without the doctrine of *god * being part of society
All valid, but the reality is that people are still influencing legislation and government that affects other people. People aren't upset about this stuff for no reason.....When religion gets out of public life and government, some of us will chill out.
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