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I can say this from experience - over 20 years of prayer to Jesus and what I needed eluded me
ONE PRAYER TO THE ONE above all and the perfection was bestowed upon me
I know it sounds corny ... but the most important thing in my life came less than a day after prayer and things which were several parts (more than one) of the prayer became a MASSIVE reality in what I needed and how it has been.
Brother - I FULLY AGREE!
Personally speaking it seems to my own and personal understanding that it was important to accept Jesus as a highly prophetic person who was able to demonstrate a love for the Creator which was resonating with the need and desire to truly know HE who many claim to love.
It amazes me how so many declare a love for God yet have no PERSONAL relationship with Him.
ON A SIDE NOTE: This topic has impressed me as to the line of discussion and how the two of you are very respectful to each other.
No person has a personal relationship with God except Jesus Christ. Nor is there any religious paradigm whereby the practice of that conjecture will result in any individual being allowed by God to have a personal relationship with him. This term 'personal relationship with god' is actually a conjectural component of mythology relative to mysticism. Rabbi Paul, formely of the sect of the Pharisees, pointed out that any natural born person who makes the claim of having a personal relationship with God is bragging, actually lying, of a relationship that does not exist. The only type of relationship God allows for the naturally born is a spiritual relationship with him. But the naturally born must be born again of God even to have a spiritual relationship with God.
Rabbi Paul, formely of the sect of the Pharisees ...
Pharisees were not a sect.
1. Jesus of Nazareth was a Pharisee. (Jesus of Nazareth was a rabbi and rabbis were Pharisees.)
2. Modern rabbinic Judaism is Pharisaical Judaism. (That means that, just like Jesus of Nazareth, I'm a Pharisee, too.)
The Pharisees believed that G-d gave the Jews both a written Torah and an oral Torah, both of which were equally binding and both of which were open to reinterpretation by the rabbis, people with sufficient education to make such decisions. The Pharisees were devoted to study of the Torah and education for all.
The Pharisaic school of thought is the only one [the Essenes, the Sadducees (Tzedukim in Hebrew) and the Pharisees] that survived the Roman destruction of the Temple. The Sadducees could not survive without the Temple, which was the center of their religion. The Essenes, who were never very numerous, were apparently killed off by the Romans (they were easily recognizable in their isolated communities).
The Sadducees evolved out of the Hellenistic elements of Judaism. The movement was made up of the priests and the aristocrats of Jewish society. They were religiously conservative but socially liberal. The Sadducees believed in a strict, narrow and unchanging interpretation of the written Torah, and they did not believe in oral Torah. The Temple and its sacrificial services were at the center of their worship. Socially, they adopted the ways of the neighboring Greek culture.
The Essenes were an ascetic and mystical group devoted to strict discipline. They lived in isolation from the world. The Dead Sea Scrolls are believed to be the product of an Essene sect. Some scholars believe that early Christianity was influenced by the mystical and hermetical teachings of the Essenes.
1. Jesus of Nazareth was a Pharisee. (Jesus of Nazareth was a rabbi and rabbis were Pharisees.)
2. Modern rabbinic Judaism is Pharisaical Judaism. (That means that, just like Jesus of Nazareth, I'm a Pharisee, too.)
The Pharisees believed that G-d gave the Jews both a written Torah and an oral Torah, both of which were equally binding and both of which were open to reinterpretation by the rabbis, people with sufficient education to make such decisions. The Pharisees were devoted to study of the Torah and education for all.
The Pharisaic school of thought is the only one [the Essenes, the Sadducees (Tzedukim in Hebrew) and the Pharisees] that survived the Roman destruction of the Temple. The Sadducees could not survive without the Temple, which was the center of their religion. The Essenes, who were never very numerous, were apparently killed off by the Romans (they were easily recognizable in their isolated communities).
The Sadducees evolved out of the Hellenistic elements of Judaism. The movement was made up of the priests and the aristocrats of Jewish society. They were religiously conservative but socially liberal. The Sadducees believed in a strict, narrow and unchanging interpretation of the written Torah, and they did not believe in oral Torah. The Temple and its sacrificial services were at the center of their worship. Socially, they adopted the ways of the neighboring Greek culture.
The Essenes were an ascetic and mystical group devoted to strict discipline. They lived in isolation from the world. The Dead Sea Scrolls are believed to be the product of an Essene sect. Some scholars believe that early Christianity was influenced by the mystical and hermetical teachings of the Essenes.
According to what I gather from the recorded comments of Jesus of Nazreth he has never met any Pharisee he did not dislike, yet. I also stipulate to you, again, that I am well aware of current Jewish historical prespectives. They are as comical now to Jesus of Nazreth as they were then. "Swallow a camel and strain at a gnat", rabbi. So there is no reasonable reason I can find, rabbi, that indicates to me that I need a reeducation of any Pharisees' conjecture prior to or post of your demise.
Pharisees were not a sect.
1. Jesus of Nazareth was a Pharisee. (Jesus of Nazareth was a rabbi and rabbis were Pharisees.)
2. Modern rabbinic Judaism is Pharisaical Judaism. (That means that, just like Jesus of Nazareth, I'm a Pharisee, too.)
The Pharisees believed that G-d gave the Jews both a written Torah and an oral Torah, both of which were equally binding and both of which were open to reinterpretation by the rabbis, people with sufficient education to make such decisions. The Pharisees were devoted to study of the Torah and education for all.
This is essentially correct . . . and is the one feature of Christ's ministry that has been suppressed and ignored for over 2000 years. Christ's injunction not to put "new wine" (generations) in "old wineskins"(old beliefs) is a reference to that tradition that has been ignored resulting in the stupid retention of ancient ignorance with no revision or reinterpretation using advanced knowledge. It has been a travesty.
This is essentially correct . . . and is the one feature of Christ's ministry that has been suppressed and ignored for over 2000 years. Christ's injunction not to put "new wine" (generations) in "old wineskins"(old beliefs) is a reference to that tradition that has been ignored resulting in the stupid retention of ancient ignorance with no revision or reinterpretation using advanced knowledge. It has been a travesty.
No person has a personal relationship with God except Jesus Christ. Nor is there any religious paradigm whereby the practice of that conjecture will result in any individual being allowed by God to have a personal relationship with him. This term 'personal relationship with god' is actually a conjectural component of mythology relative to mysticism. Rabbi Paul, formely of the sect of the Pharisees, pointed out that any natural born person who makes the claim of having a personal relationship with God is bragging, actually lying, of a relationship that does not exist. The only type of relationship God allows for the naturally born is a spiritual relationship with him. But the naturally born must be born again of God even to have a spiritual relationship with God.
This is where you and I are different - okay - I think your interpretation is based on the teachings of some dead guy's concept which has been diluted by many years of misrepresented interpretation.
I personally do NOT buy into Jesus as a MESSIAH and as for RELIGION
I am very religious! I religiously wash my hands every time I use the restroom.
YOU SAID:
Quote:
No person has a personal relationship with God except Jesus Christ.
So to you the Lord's Prayer is what? a prayer to Jesus?
This is where you and I are different - okay - I think your interpretation is based on the teachings of some dead guy's concept which has been diluted by many years of misrepresented interpretation.
I personally do NOT buy into Jesus as a MESSIAH and as for RELIGION
I am very religious! I religiously wash my hands every time I use the restroom.
YOU SAID:
So to you the Lord's Prayer is what? a prayer to Jesus?
Kudos. Every one who reads that you wash your hands after you---------------I am sure we are all glad, if you do that.
To whom was He speaking? You weren't there were you? Probably on a bathroom break, perhaps, if you were, for proper religious practice. The Lord Jesus who is the Messiah, by the way, is the ONLY begotten Son of God so for this factual reason he is the only physical human man that is personally related to God. However He is also the FIRST born of God from amoung the dead. For him to be first in that class there also must be seconds in this class. Born again of the Spirit. All of God's children are born from amoung the dead and all of the seconds are only related to God spiritually not physically which you have falsely assumed. None of God's children are produced by natural birth. See Jn. 1:13 Comprenda?
Kudos. Every one who reads that you wash your hands after you---------------I am sure we are all glad, if you do that.
To whom was He speaking? You weren't there were you? Probably on a bathroom break, perhaps, if you were, for proper religious practice. The Lord Jesus who is the Messiah, by the way, is the ONLY begotten Son of God so for this factual reason he is the only physical human man that is personally related to God. However He is also the FIRST born of God from amoung the dead. For him to be first in that class there also must be seconds in this class. Born again of the Spirit. All of God's children are born from amoung the dead and all of the seconds are only related to God spiritually not physically which you have falsely assumed. None of God's children are produced by natural birth. See Jn. 1:13 Comprenda?
Perhaps a concordance with the term "son of God" or "the sons of God" and a jaunt through the Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament to some) will be revealing, if you think Jesus is the ONLY begotten son of God. By "begotten", I assume you mean something sexual? God had sex with Mary, and thus Jesus was born. Holy Spirit, or whatever...
Even removing the "begotten" part, there have been mans "sons of God" in title, an especially notable figure being King David.
For the "begotten" part, you can start with Genesis 6 and move on from there. Try to resist interpreting the actual words of Scripture in this passage into something more in line with your Theology, though - it's been done, and it's still wrong.
A concordance would also be helpful with the term "Messiah" and the Hebrew Bible. It's usually translated "annointed one" (for that is essentially what it means), and you will find quite a few people who share the term "messiah" prior to Jesus. Cyrus the Great - a Persian, a non-Israelite, was a "Messiah" liberating the Chosen People from their oppressors.
But then again, why would I expect Biblical Literacy with some of the views you have put forth? You use prophecies dragged out of the Hebrew Bible, but then go to great lengths to discredit the practices the Hebrew Bible commands to be practiced "until Eternity". Well, I suppose God didn't really mean that, did he?
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