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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Ignore theological background...ignore all that stuff about being born sinners, not accepting Jesus...etc...ignore the 'if it's not heaven it's hell' binary system.
Just look at the punishment of eternal torment - your body being physically tortured (let's say by a magical lake of sulfur that burns away the body before a new one is created) for eternity.
My question to all is:
is there any amount of evil that justifies being sent to such a place?
Does Hitler deserve it?
Does John Wayne Gacy deserve it?
Does George W. Bush deserve it?
If their crimes - massive as they are - are finite, why not mete out a punishment proportionate to their crimes? For instance, if Hitler is in some way responsible for the deaths of 6 million, why not punish him for 6 million? If JWG killed 30 boys in a particularly horrific way, why not 10 years for each victim...
Or judge it not by numbers, but intent.
I don't see how anyone could logically advocate eternal punishment for anybody.
I'm not one to judge, but if the accusations are true, then 'doubleya' won't be going to Heaven.
It's a disgrace that he was never tried for his war crimes.
Anyway, to answer your question: no, I don't think eternal torment is justifiable in any case and certainly not based on the "crimes" of the Bible. I cannot think of a more cruel and evil concept than eternal suffering. If we should be judged after death, let the punishments and rewards be proportionate to our actions here on earth.
Doesn't it make you sick to your stomach to realise that a kind and generous Buddhist will spend the rest of eternity in excrutiating torment whereas a violent serial killer who converts to Christianity on his death bed will spend the rest of eternity in paradise? What kind of twisted morality is this? Thank "God" this stuff isn't real.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,081,790 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG
It's a disgrace that he was never tried for his war crimes.
Anyway, to answer your question: no, I don't think eternal torment is justifiable in any case and certainly not based on the "crimes" of the Bible. I cannot think of a more cruel and evil concept than eternal suffering. If we should be judged after death, let the punishments and rewards be proportionate to our actions here on earth.
Doesn't it make you sick to your stomach to realise that a kind and generous Buddhist will spend the rest of eternity in excrutiating torment whereas a violent serial killer who converts to Christianity on his death bed will spend the rest of eternity in paradise? What kind of twisted morality is this? Thank "God" this stuff isn't real.
One of the many reasons I could never be a Fundamentalist.
One of the many reasons I could never be a Fundamentalist.
But you don't have to be a fundamentalist to believe this, right? It seems to be the basic premise of Christianity: you will go to heaven if you accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God (no matter what sins you have committed in your life, just repent and you're forgiven) and you will go to hell if you don't. If you don't believe this then what about you makes you a Christian?
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,081,790 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG
But you don't have to be a fundamentalist to believe this, right? It seems to be the basic premise of Christianity: you will go to heaven if you accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God (no matter what sins you have committed in your life, just repent and you're forgiven) and you will go to hell if you don't. If you don't believe this then what about you makes you a Christian?
That's a big can of worms (that dieth not ).
There's a lot of debate that that's not what the original authors even meant. The idea of eternal torment, I believe, was formulated by the Church, influenced by various Jewish sects at the time, in order to present a fearful brand of Christianity to convert people and exert power over them.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,081,790 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindavG
So you do not believe in the traditional Christian concept of heaven and hell? Then what do you believe and how can you back this up with scripture? Just curious
I lean towards Conditionalism - natural or otherwise - where sinners will simply be destroyed and exist no more. I could be wrong, but that's what I get from the plainest reading of the scripture.
It's interesting that when people go to hell and come back during an NDE, from what I have seen they always say that they deserved it and they are changed by the experience. Meaning they search for God and how to stay out of there. That tells me that our minds are clearer in the afterlife, in that we have a better perspective on our lives and how we lived in this life.
Once I see God, or know the holiness of God, I will better know how depraved I really was on earth. Meaning how depraved the natural man is. It's not a persons works that gets them to hell, it's their natural depravity. We are condemned already from the time of the age of consent, whenever that is. Sure different people do different bad things, but everyone does bad things and has bad thoughts, even of hatred and murder, even if they don't act on them.
Last edited by Mind over Chatter; 02-09-2012 at 05:18 AM..
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Thank "God" this stuff isn't real.
). 
