Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,068,476 times
Reputation: 11862
Advertisements
The thread on Osama Bin Laden got me thinking. There are people whom we are expected to unquestionably, unequivocally hate. Famous people like Hitler, Pol Pot and Osama, as well as callous murderers and child molesters. My question is, to what extent is it socially permissable to feel love/affection/pity for people like this?
While I don't have warm fuzzy feelings for Hitler and have the utmost sympathy for his victims, a part of me would hope that, after being severely punished, his eyes would be opened and he would walk out of the darkness and with tears in his eyes be truly repentant for what he did. Maybe this is just feel good crap to many, who haven't an ounce of sympathy for him, but in an ideal Universe this is what I hope would happen. I feel this way because I know deep down we are all divinely created beings and deep down we are all one. It is preferable to err on the side of compassion to everybody as a matter of principle. Same goes for Osama.etc. The fact I don't feel total hatred for pedophiles, more a disgust for what they DO, makes me feel almost like I SHOULD hate them more. I just don't like making things PERSONAL you know. Even people like Charles Manson, I think of his mother who treated him like Moderator cut: inappropriate language and I have to say his mother was at least partly to blame.
Then I look at the religious traditions. The Bible seems to wholeheartedly condemn evil people - God doesn't show mercy to evildoers, so it seems to approve of it. So in that sense Jesus saying to 'love your enemy' is a bit contradictory, but maybe he said that merely as a form of peaceful resistance like Gandhi? He was merciful enough to provide them a way out, but when it comes down to it his enemies remain his enemies forever (if they don't repent). None of the other religions seem particularly forgiving of the wicked either, but at least Buddhist sort of makes it abstract a bit.
I'm afraid I can't make myself feel pity for truly evil people like the ones you've named. And not in the least because none of them were forced into their actions.
The thread on Osama Bin Laden got me thinking. There are people whom we are expected to unquestionably, unequivocally hate. Famous people like Hitler, Pol Pot and Osama, as well as callous murderers and child molesters. My question is, to what extent is it socially permissable to feel love/affection/pity for people like this?
While I don't have warm fuzzy feelings for Hitler and have the utmost sympathy for his victims, a part of me would hope that, after being severely punished, his eyes would be opened and he would walk out of the darkness and with tears in his eyes be truly repentant for what he did. Maybe this is just feel good crap to many, who haven't an ounce of sympathy for him, but in an ideal Universe this is what I hope would happen. I feel this way because I know deep down we are all divinely created beings and deep down we are all one. It is preferable to err on the side of compassion to everybody as a matter of principle. Same goes for Osama.etc. The fact I don't feel total hatred for pedophiles, more a disgust for what they DO, makes me feel almost like I SHOULD hate them more. I just don't like making things PERSONAL you know. Even people like Charles Manson, I think of his mother who treated him like Moderator cut: Orphaned and I have to say his mother was at least partly to blame.
Then I look at the religious traditions. The Bible seems to wholeheartedly condemn evil people - God doesn't show mercy to evildoers, so it seems to approve of it. So in that sense Jesus saying to 'love your enemy' is a bit contradictory, but maybe he said that merely as a form of peaceful resistance like Gandhi? He was merciful enough to provide them a way out, but when it comes down to it his enemies remain his enemies forever (if they don't repent). None of the other religions seem particularly forgiving of the wicked either, but at least Buddhist sort of makes it abstract a bit.
What are your opinions on the matter?
"Feel good crap." --If something makes you feel good, is it crap??
"The fact I don't feel total hatred for pedophiles, more a disgust for what they DO, makes me feel almost like I SHOULD hate them more."
Fascinating and truly honest! You are NOT alone! What you are telling us here (correctly, imo) is that hate is learned behavior. You feel guilty for not learning to hate.
Rather, you should be glad that you do not hate! Hate is what causes so much evil in the world! Without hate, we can learn to deal with problems in better, more constructive ways!
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,068,476 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
"Feel good crap." --If something makes you feel good, is it crap??
"The fact I don't feel total hatred for pedophiles, more a disgust for what they DO, makes me feel almost like I SHOULD hate them more."
Fascinating and truly honest! You are NOT alone! What you are telling us here (correctly, imo) is that hate is learned behavior. You feel guilty for not learning to hate.
Rather, you should be glad that you do not hate! Hate is what causes so much evil in the world! Without hate, we can learn to deal with problems in better, more constructive ways!
Blessings,
brian
I'm glad you see that too, Brian, it's something I realised pretty early on. I heard all these people getting so pissed off at pedophiles, and I was only mildly dismayed, even a bit sympathetic for them. Immediately I started worrying that I was being too sympathetic or that I even condoned it. People make you feel like it's wrong to feel sympathy for them. Can't you feel sympathy and yet also condemn their actions at the same time? Since when did you have to also hate the sinner with your whole heart not just the sin?
What disturbs me is, people would hate to see someone like that get rehabilitated or turn around and repent...even if he screwed up ONCE his deed was irredeemably evil. The ideal situation for me is that he repented but that he is also helped through his issues. The victims probably wouldn't want to see his face again but imagine if he could somehow 'repay' them? There are probably those who were pretty monstrous and get off and murdering and killing children but are even they beyond hope? Most aren't even like that, maybe their brains are wired a little wrong or it's to do with their circumstances.
You can tell those people whose compassion is truly unconditional and whose mercy is really like something superhuman. They shine and rise above the normal person who just hates and is blinded by hate and a mob mentality.
Then I look at the religious traditions. The Bible seems to wholeheartedly condemn evil people - God doesn't show mercy to evildoers, so it seems to approve of it.
Note who is doing the condemning
Quote:
So in that sense Jesus saying to 'love your enemy' is a bit contradictory, but maybe he said that merely as a form of peaceful resistance like Gandhi?
If was the case Jesus would have said, "pretend to love your enemies: it annoys them"
jesus was pretty clear about the importance of loving other humans. he says some people are easy to love and anyone can love those people but what separates the christian is that the christian loves everybody, even those doing horrible things to others. yes that means opening your heart to pedophiles and not judging them as being good or bad.
in case you can't tell, following the teachings of jesus can be super hard.
I'm glad you see that too, Brian, it's something I realised pretty early on. I heard all these people getting so pissed off at pedophiles, and I was only mildly dismayed, even a bit sympathetic for them. Immediately I started worrying that I was being too sympathetic or that I even condoned it. People make you feel like it's wrong to feel sympathy for them. Can't you feel sympathy and yet also condemn their actions at the same time? Since when did you have to also hate the sinner with your whole heart not just the sin?
What disturbs me is, people would hate to see someone like that get rehabilitated or turn around and repent...even if he screwed up ONCE his deed was irredeemably evil. The ideal situation for me is that he repented but that he is also helped through his issues. The victims probably wouldn't want to see his face again but imagine if he could somehow 'repay' them? There are probably those who were pretty monstrous and get off and murdering and killing children but are even they beyond hope? Most aren't even like that, maybe their brains are wired a little wrong or it's to do with their circumstances.
You can tell those people whose compassion is truly unconditional and whose mercy is really like something superhuman. They shine and rise above the normal person who just hates and is blinded by hate and a mob mentality.
I don't know for sure. It may be that all of us (mankind) have some "weak spot" where we really struggle to forgive. If that is the case, then we need the help of others who are stronger, to help us to move beyond the anger/rage and learn to mourn the suffering and start to forgive. Forgiveness is possible, the problem is sometimes just what we are taught in school, at work, from the TV/newspapers, etc.
I know that in general Americans don't like the idea of being "weak." Anything about forgiveness is what women do, the men cannot do it, they have to be "hard" and "tough" and all the rest.
Lived it, saw it, suffered it.. My hope is to see that change.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,068,476 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by progmac
Note who is doing the condemning
If was the case Jesus would have said, "pretend to love your enemies: it annoys them"
jesus was pretty clear about the importance of loving other humans. he says some people are easy to love and anyone can love those people but what separates the christian is that the christian loves everybody, even those doing horrible things to others. yes that means opening your heart to pedophiles and not judging them as being good or bad.
in case you can't tell, following the teachings of jesus can be super hard.
Countless times in the OT it pretty much says the Lord doesn't show mercy to the wicked. Can't be plainer than that, can it? I wish it wasn't true but it's staring at me!
Indeed Jesus was, yet Jesus was equally clear that the wicked would ULTIMATELY get their dues. That's just how it is. But judging is God's job.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,068,476 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
I don't know for sure. It may be that all of us (mankind) have some "weak spot" where we really struggle to forgive. If that is the case, then we need the help of others who are stronger, to help us to move beyond the anger/rage and learn to mourn the suffering and start to forgive. Forgiveness is possible, the problem is sometimes just what we are taught in school, at work, from the TV/newspapers, etc.
I know that in general Americans don't like the idea of being "weak." Anything about forgiveness is what women do, the men cannot do it, they have to be "hard" and "tough" and all the rest.
Lived it, saw it, suffered it.. My hope is to see that change.
Blessings,
brian
When you see mobs gathered outside say prisons waiting for somebody to be executed, it seems the hatred of women is most passionate/strong. It certainly doesn't seem women are any more forgiving than men at all.
Countless times in the OT it pretty much says the Lord doesn't show mercy to the wicked. Can't be plainer than that, can it? I wish it wasn't true but it's staring at me!
Indeed Jesus was, yet Jesus was equally clear that the wicked would ULTIMATELY get their dues. That's just how it is. But judging is God's job.
It is tempting for us to decide who is bad and who is not and then feel satisfaction thinking, 'they will get their dues.' but that misses the whole point of Christianity. the fact is that we shouldn't speculate as to who is bad and who is not, who will be judged with favor, who with mercy, and who with torment.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
