A list of forgotten Gods. (Isaiah, genesis, America, myth)
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Throughout history human beings have believed in gods—thousands of them. And just as past cultures—many great and lasting civilizations—have all but slipped from our memory, so have the gods they worshiped.
If these deities are remembered in the present at all, they are thought only to be quaint relics of a distant, more primitive people.
This fact, perhaps more than any other, demonstrates that gods are human inventions, and live only so long as groups bound by common belief survive. Gods live solely in the minds of men and women, and are conjured up to serve very human personal and political needs.
Good thread. The Bible says as much. Many gods. The spiritaul realm is rich with minor gods.
The interesting question has to do with the nature, scope and powers of said gods. Most are regional and limited in scope. At least from what I have learned from my research.
Good thread. The Bible says as much. Many gods. The spiritaul realm is rich with minor gods.
The interesting question has to do with the nature, scope and powers of said gods. Most are regional and limited in scope. At least from what I have learned from my research.
Yes, and so was Yahweh at one time.
Only with the advent of Isaiah, and the Book of Jonah as a good example, was Yahweh's power extended past his own regional boundaries over the rest of the world. Jonah believed he could shirk his duties by fleeing to another country, but he learned that Yahweh was now a Universal God - and not just a henotheistic god, as he was previously. See the story of Moab's successful defense of Israel's attack, when the King sacrificed his son to Chemosh - and Chemosh's wrath fell upon the Israelites, and they were forced to retreat. A fine example of what you're talking about.
Yes, and so was Yahweh at one time.
Only with the advent of Isaiah, and the Book of Jonah as a good example, was Yahweh's power extended past his own regional boundaries over the rest of the world. Jonah believed he could shirk his duties by fleeing to another country, but he learned that Yahweh was now a Universal God - and not just a henotheistic god, as he was previously. See the story of Moab's successful defense of Israel's attack, when the King sacrificed his son to Chemosh - and Chemosh's wrath fell upon the Israelites, and they were forced to retreat. A fine example of what you're talking about.
And what site did you get this off of?
General principle of life: just because it is on the internet does not make it true. But still an interesting speculation. I wonder how this was come up with. 3000 BC documents are pretty much nonexistant outside of the OT docs. Care to provide some cites that say where docs that support your post comes from?
Yes I know, poor grammar. Forgive me. it is late in my time zone and the wife says "get off the computer" Women! Just want to spend time together.
Good thread. The Bible says as much. Many gods. The spiritaul realm is rich with minor gods.
The interesting question has to do with the nature, scope and powers of said gods. Most are regional and limited in scope. At least from what I have learned from my research.
True, but you have to remember that people did not have the means to travel much at all in the days when those Gods were worshiped, so they remained local. Today religions spread their doctrines far and wide.
True, but you have to remember that people did not have the means to travel much at all in the days when those Gods were worshiped, so they remained local. Today religions spread their doctrines far and wide.
Good post.
I shall point out that human travel is not a factor on a god's sphere of influence.
With that said it is late for both of us. Sleep well!
General principle of life: just because it is on the internet does not make it true. But still an interesting speculation. I wonder how this was come up with. 3000 BC documents are pretty much nonexistant outside of the OT docs. Care to provide some cites that say where docs that support your post comes from?
Yes I know, poor grammar. Forgive me. it is late in my time zone and the wife says "get off the computer" Women! Just want to spend time together.
Website? None of that is from a website. It's pretty standard biblical scholarship nowadays, in case you don't keep up with that sort of stuff (which I know, is a full-time job in itself sometimes). I am aware of the principal that just because something is on the internet, it doesn't make it true...With that said, check out Wikipedia's article on "Henotheism" and the sub-section "Judaism". You will find a fairly decent summary that you could then follow up with some of the information below.
As for your assertion concerning 3000 BC documents - we are not discussing 3000 BC. I'm not sure what you're trying to say about that. There are literally tons of documents from places such as Sumer and Egypt from before 3000 BC.
I can reccomend some books to follow up the information with:
The Anchor Bible Dictionary (Doubleday)
(For discussions on Yahweh, Israelite Origins, and Henotheism)
Cross, Frank M. - Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic
Smith, Mark S. - The Origins of Biblical Monotheism - Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts; also, see The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel
Hiebert, Theodore - The Yahwist's Landscape: Nature and Religion in Early Israel
Aaron, David H. - Biblical Ambiguities: Metaphor, Semantics and Divine Imagery
Malamat, Abraham - A History of Biblical Israel: Major Problems and Minor Issues
Lemche, Peter Niels - The Canaanites and their Land: The Tradition of the Canaanites
Gnuse, Robert Karl - No Other Gods: Emergent Monotheism in Israel
(Jonah, Isaiah)
ANY competent commentary, or decent study bible.
Jewish Study Bible is excellent and contains essays on all the topics under discussion.
Along with the Jewish Study Bible, I would highly reccomend Michael Coogan's "The Old Testament: A Very Short Introduction".
Anyways - I could spend all day listing resources - the above is a very small sample, indeed, with the most important ones being Cross and Smith - in my opinion. Smith is more accessible than Cross, for Cross requires a knowledge of Hebrew, Ugaritic and other Semitic languages to wrap your head around his argumentation and examples. I reccomend Cross highly, but I must give that caveat - it's not for a popular audience. Just pick one, read it and it will also contain a decent bibliography that will lead you to mounds of other sources. It all depends on what particular aspect you're looking for. Some of the books are more specialized, while others are more general. Coogan's is an excellent, highly reccomended overview of the Hebrew Bible and Ancient Israel. If you are interested in any of these, and I have them in E-book format (and many of them, I do) - I will gladly send a few your way. If you're interested in a fuller formulation within a forum post, I may be able to do that as well another day. It's late, though, and I must run off to bed. My woman isn't pestering me - she's already asleep heh heh!
I wouldn't describe all the gods in that list as 'forgotten'; some of them are still recognized by "minority" religions, in particular the Native American and Norse gods.
General principle of life: just because it is on the internet does not make it true. But still an interesting speculation. I wonder how this was come up with. 3000 BC documents are pretty much nonexistant outside of the OT docs. Care to provide some cites that say where docs that support your post comes from?
Yes I know, poor grammar. Forgive me. it is late in my time zone and the wife says "get off the computer" Women! Just want to spend time together.
Whoppers is actually correct. The Israelites started as polytheistic. Yahweh, the god of Israel, was merely one of the many gods of the Ugaritic pantheon. The reference in Genesis to "man has become as one of us" refers to that pantheon, not the Trinity.
Later on, Judaism transitioned to monotheism, and Yahweh became the Supreme God.
Whoppers is actually correct. The Israelites started as polytheistic. Yahweh, the god of Israel, was merely one of the many gods of the Ugaritic pantheon. The reference in Genesis to "man has become as one of us" refers to that pantheon, not the Trinity.
Later on, Judaism transitioned to monotheism, and Yahweh became the Supreme God.
A good way to begin any discussion on it is to note the differences between biblical religion and ancient Israelite relgion - which most people assume are the same. In the book I mentioned in my post, The Jewish Study Bible, Stephen Geller writes
We must first understand that biblical religion is not, strictly speaking, "biblical" because, unlike Judaism and Christianity, it is not a religion based on the Bible - i.e., the canonized record of past divine revelation - but on that revelation itself. Also, it is not a "religion", in the sense of the beliefs and practices of an actual community. Rather, biblical religion was a minority, dissident phenomenon, always at odds, as the Bible itself states, with the actual religions of the small kingdoms of Israel and Judah.....
Moreover, biblical religion is not a unity but rather a congeries of differing and often competing opinions and traditions.
(JSB, "Backgrounds For Reading The Bible: The Religion of the Bible", p. 2021, Oxford)
A fantastic essay, among many, in a book that is easily available at any bookstore, and well worth the price of admission. Pages 2021-2022 are especially helpful to the current topic.
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My woman isn't pestering me - she's already asleep heh heh!
