Another mormon thread (Latter Day Saints, salvation, hell, Mormons)

[Dave5150]

While there are a lot of mormons in our country, I feel its a religion I know little about. So in light of the more specific threads on here regarding the LDS church, I thought I would pose some general questions that can go where ever the discussion goes, without needing redirection, hopefully.

How does one become a mormon?
When the LDS church disallowed polygamy was it because it was looked down upon or did some fundamental belief change?
We see fiction and reality on tv and in books relating to the continued practice polygamy, but in your experience how realistically is it practiced?
Is mormonism a male controlled religion, is my husband the final authority below church leaders?
What is the guy at church called? Pastor, father, priest, etc etc
Is the guy at church believed to receive either direct communication from God or from someone who does receive direct communication?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Dave5150

While there are a lot of mormons in our country, I feel its a religion I know little about. So in light of the more specific threads on here regarding the LDS church, I thought I would pose some general questions that can go where ever the discussion goes, without needing redirection, hopefully.

Thanks for the questions, Dave.

How does one become a mormon?

Generally speaking, a person meets with a couple of the Church's full-time missionaries and is taught the basics of LDS doctrine. He or she is encouraged to read the Book of Mormon with an open mind and then to pray to God, asking if it is truly what it claims to be -- another record testifying that Jesus is the Christ and the Savior of mankind. Having come to the conclusion that he wants to convert, he is interviewed to determine whether or not he is ready to take this step and committed to the change in life this conversion will undoubtedly involve. Finally, he is baptised by immersion and has hands laid on his head confirming him a member of the Church and giving him the gift of the Holy Ghost.

When the LDS church disallowed polygamy was it because it was looked down upon or did some fundamental belief change?

That's a pretty involved subject and one that could practically take up a thread of its own. We believe that God authorized polygamy in the early days of the Church, just as He had in Old Testament times. Even though only about 5% of all Mormon men ever had more than one wife at a time, the practice met with tremendous hostility from outside the Church. Plural marriage had been practiced openly during most of Brigham Young’s administration. It had continued throughout John Taylor’s administration. After John Taylor’s death, in 1887, the keys of authority were held for two years by the Quorum of the Twelve. Finally, Wilford Woodruff, was sustained as the fourth President of the Church. During his tenure as President, the political crusade against the Church continued to intensify. Within just a few short months after he was sustained, Wilford Woodruff came to the undeniable conclusion that, this time, the Church was literally going to be destroyed. After surviving nearly sixty years of persecution, it was essentially going to be wiped off the face of the earth and all of its assets confiscated. It was one thing to fight the mobs. It was quite another to fight the Feds. We believe that in response to the situation which existed at that time, Wilford Woodruff was told by the Lord that the practice should be discontinued.

We see fiction and reality on tv and in books relating to the continued practice polygamy, but in your experience how realistically is it practiced?

If you're referring to the practice existing in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today, it's an excommunicable offense. No ifs, ands, or buts. No extenuating circumstances. If a member of the Church is found to be in a polygamous relationship, he is excommunicated. There are a number of splinter groups (e.g. Warren Jeff's group) who practice polygamy, but we do not consider them to be a legitimate branch of our Church any more than Catholicism considers Lutheranism to be a legitimate branch of theirs.

Is mormonism a male controlled religion, is my husband the final authority below church leaders?

The equality of a husband and wife is generally stressed about as much as the man's "final authority." While the man is considered to be the "head of the house," so to speak, he is to head the household in such a way that he is not abusing his authority. Neither a man nor a woman, incidentally, can be granted permission to attend one of the Church's temples (another subject entirely) if he or she is guilty of physical or mental abuse of a spouse or their children.

What is the guy at church called? Pastor, father, priest, etc etc

The leader of an individual congregation (organized along strictly geographical lines) is called a bishop, and is addressed either as "Bishop Jones," or just "Bishop." The leader of several geographically contiguous congregations is called a stake president and is addressed either as "President Peterson" or just "President." We have a "lay priesthood," so both of these men support their families by working full-time in their chosen careers at the same time as they are officiating over a "ward" (similar to a parish) or "stake" (similar to a diocese). They will be "called" to serve for a period of about five years and will then be "released." (After putting in twenty or thirty hours a week without pay for five years, "released" is probably pretty descriptive of what it feels like to have that responsibility passed on to someone else. )

Is the guy at church believed to receive either direct communication from God or from someone who does receive direct communication?

We believe that a bishop may receive direct communication from God with respect to issues relating specifically to the ward he is presiding over, e.g. "It's time this congregation started being more welcoming to newcomers" or "This congregation is financially well-enough off that its members could be more generous in their financial contributions to support the needy." It could be something as simple as, "This person has what it takes to reach this difficult child. He'd be the perfect choice as a Sunday School teacher for that age group." Similarly, a stake president may receive direction from the Lord over the stake he is presiding over. (Likewise, Sunday School teachers could receive communication from God pertaining to how to best fulfill that "calling".) Only the President of the Church is entitled to receive communication from God pertaining to the Church as a whole. In other words, no bishop would ever be able to say, "God revealed to me that from now on, alcohot is okay 'in moderation'," or "The Lord told me that it's okay for us to start up polygamy again."

I hope this helps.

[Chango]

Originally Posted by Dave5150

While there are a lot of mormons in our country, I feel its a religion I know little about. So in light of the more specific threads on here regarding the LDS church, I thought I would pose some general questions that can go where ever the discussion goes, without needing redirection, hopefully.

How does one become a mormon?
When the LDS church disallowed polygamy was it because it was looked down upon or did some fundamental belief change?
We see fiction and reality on tv and in books relating to the continued practice polygamy, but in your experience how realistically is it practiced?
Is mormonism a male controlled religion, is my husband the final authority below church leaders?
What is the guy at church called? Pastor, father, priest, etc etc
Is the guy at church believed to receive either direct communication from God or from someone who does receive direct communication?

another perspective:

To become mormon you get baptized, just like any other christian chruch.

The church abandoned polygamy mostly because they wanted statehood for Utah; also the functional point of polygamy was to make lots of dedicated mormons fast (also why polygamist husbands were specifically "called" to do it and were almost always church leaders and people unusually dedicated to "the work"); by the turn of the century it had accomplished it's intended purpose and was not really needed anymore.

There is a clear hierarchy; the leader of a church ward is a "Bishop". Mormons believe everyone is entitled to personal revelation, higher church leaders for the local needs of the congregation. Only the top (the prophet and 12 apostles) can make/change actual church doctrine/policy.

[Hueffenhardt]

Originally Posted by Dave5150

How does one become a mormon?

Generally, missionaries teach you 6 lessons discussing everything from Jesus, to Joseph Smith's First Vision, the Book of Mormon, the Plan of Salvation, the Word of Wisdom, the Law of Chastity, Tithing, etc. As a partof each of those lessons, the missionaries challenge you to do certain things, such as: read passages from the Book of Mormon; pray and ask God if Joseph Smith was a true prophet and whether the Book of Mormon is true; attend church; stop smoking, drinking alcohol, coffee, and tea; commit to be baptized a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

After you have completed all 6 lessons, you are interviewed by another missionary to determine if you understand the basics of what they call the "gospel" and to determine if you are keeping the commandments, such as the law of chastity and the Word of Wisdom. Provided the interview goes ok, a baptismal service is arranged and you get baptized by immersion in a font at the church. At that point, you are a member/Mormon. They also have a ceremony shortly thereafter in which a number of men put their hands on your head and say a prayer in which they invite you to receive the Holy Ghost.

Originally Posted by Dave5150

When the LDS church disallowed polygamy was it because it was looked down upon or did some fundamental belief change?

That is a matter of opinion, so it depends on who you ask. I am a former Mormon, and it appears clear to me that the Church never would have given up polygamy had they not been in so much trouble with the law and it was a condition of statehood that they give it up. One thing, we can say for certain, it was not a fundamental belief change. It could be called a change in policy or practice, but never a change in belief. Modern Mormons believe the discontinuing of the creation of new plural marriages was approved by God, and it was announced by their Prophet Wilford Woodruff. However, the practice continued in the Church for at least another 15 years before it really stopped in the main LDS Church.

Originally Posted by Dave5150

We see fiction and reality on tv and in books relating to the continued practice polygamy, but in your experience how realistically is it practiced?

The practice of polygamy does not continue within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, so most members of that church have no idea how polygamy is really practiced today.

However, there are a number of other churches, that are off-shoots of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that do practice polygamy. You'd have to ask one of them if the tv shows accurately depict their lifestyle. One thing to remember however is that these groups are vastly different. For instance, the polygamous families depicted in Big Love maybe very representative of polygamous families in the Salt Lake area, but would not be representative of polygamous families that are part of the FLDS church led by Warren Jeffs (who wear dresses from the 1800's).

Originally Posted by Dave5150

Is mormonism a male controlled religion, is my husband the final authority below church leaders?

I'll be interested to see how the active members answer this as this, too, may be seen as a matter of opinion. However, I think the doctrine is quite clear. The men hold the priesthood, the men are to provide and protect and preside in the home. The women are to nurture. Certainly, mainly LDS couples find ways to spin that so that the woman presides as much as the man in the marriage (as I and my wife did), but there are a lot of couples who take the Proclamation on the Family quite literally and there is no doubt the man is the head of the household. All Mormons are cautioned to not exercise unrighteous dominion, meaning don't abuse your power or leadership role, and domestic abuse is strongly discouraged.

One thing you should know though: in the temple, men covenant to obey the Lord, but women covenant to obey their husbands as he obeys the Lord. Or, at least they did; they may have softened that language up a little now.

Here is a quote from "The Family: A Proclamation to the World"

By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners.

Originally Posted by Dave5150

What is the guy at church called? Pastor, father, priest, etc etc

The head of the local congregation is called the Bishop (if the congreation is big enough to be called a Ward) and he has two Counselors. If the congregation is small, it may be called a Branch, and the head of it is called the Branch President.

Originally Posted by Dave5150

Is the guy at church believed to receive either direct communication from God or from someone who does receive direct communication?

In Mormonism, anyone and everyone can receive direct communication and revelation from God. However, one can only receive revelation for those people you are responsible for. So, anyone can receive revelation for themselves, a woman might receive revelation for her kids, but a man who presides in the whom, might receive revelation for the whole family including his wife (that is rarely done, and most Mormons would be appalled by the idea, but it is doctrinal as it is the man who presides in the home, so he has the right by God to receive revelation from God for his wife, who has covenanted to obey him as he obeys the Lord). Anyway, a Bishop can receive revelation for his ward and any member of his ward. But, only the Prophet can receive revelation for the whole church.

[Dave5150]

I have some follow up questions-
The Book of Mormon accompanies or supersedes the bible?
Mark 13.22 says that false messiahs and prophets will use good deeds and false wonders to trick God's people into following them. The LDS has presidents that make proclamations for the church has a whole. Is direct communication with the Lord through prayer the way you assure yourself that you are not being let astray?
How does one become Mormon president?
My son was born before we were married, thats really bad?
How does tithing work? I know in another thread it was said that the absolute law on that is that 10% goes to the church even if you cant really afford it, as the church comes first. Whats the deal with that?


A sidenote, I think my household right now is run similar to the way a mormon one is. My husband is the final authority on most big things, though I run the household and serve as an advisor of sorts to tell him what the household needs. We are very old fashioned that way.

[SuperSoul]

Originally Posted by Dave5150

I have some follow up questions-
The Book of Mormon accompanies or supersedes the bible?

The Book of Mormon supersedes the bible, since according to the LDS/Mormon church, "The Book of Mormon is the most correct book on earth." And the bible is only believed "as far as it is translated correctly." Joseph Smith started (but didn't complete) going through the bible to correct statements.
Ultimately, anything said in conferences/writings by the current President of the church (prophet to members) supercedes everything & is considered "speaking for God."

Mark 13.22 says that false messiahs and prophets will use good deeds and false wonders to trick God's people into following them. The LDS has presidents that make proclamations for the church has a whole. Is direct communication with the Lord through prayer the way you assure yourself that you are not being let astray?

That is an interesting scripture & very telling regarding these religious leaders who require 10% tithes from each member to be considered celestially worthy & who changed wording from increase/interest to income & who hide finances & use Jesus Christ's name to make money & do not share tithes with the poor. Infact, church leaders have even gone as far as to try to hide Deut 14:28-29 (leaving it out of lds bible topical guides and bible dictionaries & lds scripture indexes) which states that 1/3 of tithes are to be given to the poor. The church has openly stated that tithes are not for the poor, & members should give extra for fast offerings and humanitiarian efforts beyond the 10% tithes they give.

Questioning or criticizing of the LDS leaders publically (& non anonymously) leads to excommunication (& often social implications associated)...
September Six - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How does one become Mormon president?

Most (only men) work their way up... start by being a bishop, then Stake President, then Regional Rep., then quorum of the 70, then 12 apostles, then if they outlive & have seniority over the others, they become president. No voting regarding the top calling of President.

My son was born before we were married, thats really bad?

If you wanted to get married in the temple and be considered members in good standing, you'd have to qualitfy for a temple recommend by paying 10% of your income, & you'd have to regularly pay tithing and attend church (3 hours every Sunday) for a year, before being able to enter the temple to get married & "sealed" as a family.

How does tithing work? I know in another thread it was said that the absolute law on that is that 10% goes to the church even if you cant really afford it, as the church comes first. Whats the deal with that?

Tithing was taught by one of the church leaders to be a sort of "fire insurance" against burning in hell. So, when someone says, "I can't afford to pay tithing." A leader responded by saying, "You can't afford NOT to pay tithing."

A sidenote, I think my household right now is run similar to the way a mormon one is. My husband is the final authority on most big things, though I run the household and serve as an advisor of sorts to tell him what the household needs. We are very old fashioned that way.

Similar here.
But I remind myself of what the mom in "My Big Fat Green Wedding" said... "The man may be the head, but the woman is the neck and she can turn the head whatever way she wants."

[D217]

Originally Posted by Dave5150

When the LDS church disallowed polygamy was it because it was looked down upon or did some fundamental belief change?
We see fiction and reality on tv and in books relating to the continued practice polygamy, but in your experience how realistically is it practiced?

I've noticed some Mormons still practice this in a very disguised way, being that they are extremely involved in other families, --not that they actually marry into or openly have sexual relations...

It's more like having extra "moms", "dads", and "children" around. So imo, it still happens, and it's still very weird.

[SuperSoul]

Originally Posted by D217

I've noticed some Mormons still practice this in a very disguised way, being that they are extremely involved in other families, --not that they actually marry into or have sexual relations...


It's more like having extra "moms", "dads", and "children" around. So imo it still happens.

There is a difference between the "Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" (FLDS) & The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" (LDS) headquartered in the tall building in SLC.
The FLDS still practice polygamy.
The LDS don't practice polygamy.

[D217]

Originally Posted by SuperSoul

The LDS don't practice polygamy.

That's exactly who I'm talking about.

[SuperSoul]

Originally Posted by D217

That's exactly who I'm talking about.

Polygamy is one man with many wives, not extended uncles and aunts, cousins and other families around.
But I think I understand your perception - many Mormons/LDS have large families and tend to be somewhat cliquish or exclusive in spending time with their own extended families and ward (congregation) friends.