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I'm not looking at this from a religous perspective that's why I posted it here. I'm sure the Men Jesus and Mohammad could have existed, just not as the religous books say.
I was reading the Carlos Castenada and L Ron Hubbard books and came to the Realization that Religians were being created by Fictional Character Writers all the time. Why not the same for these mainstream Religians? Is there any accounts whatsoever by indipendant observers that are unbiased? Perhaps Romans in the case of Jesus, and non-Arab tribes or Greeks perhaps in the case of Mohammad.
Why wouldn't they have existed? As time passes, many deeds are attributed to historical figures that are distorted or embellished the farther we get away from the actual event.
Perhaps Jesus really was a selfless man determined to aid the poor. Perhaps Mohammed really thought he was listening to god. And perhaps these two were so spiritual, likable, and convincing that they garnered a large following.
If I look at today's Televangelists and the huge crowds of eager listeners they draw, I find it quite plausible that something similar may have occurred in the case of Jesus or Mohammed: What they said may have just imbued a lot of hope in people and thus, both were bestowed with certain mythical qualities.
Many of Jesus' disciples were brutally martyered for their beliefs. Why would a person endure so much pain unless they truly believed that Jesus was the son of God?
Jesus (as the Son of God) existed to save man kind from their sins. He was for peace and wasn't for PARADING sins around.
Mohammed the pedophile seemed to hate women and was a man of war with a large cult following to this day.
Both existed for sure
Many of Jesus' disciples were brutally martyered for their beliefs. Why would a person endure so much pain unless they truly believed that Jesus was the son of God?
Their belief is not at issue. The issue is whether or not what they believed was true.
I'm not looking at this from a religous perspective that's why I posted it here. I'm sure the Men Jesus and Mohammad could have existed, just not as the religous books say.
I was reading the Carlos Castenada and L Ron Hubbard books and came to the Realization that Religians were being created by Fictional Character Writers all the time. Why not the same for these mainstream Religians? Is there any accounts whatsoever by indipendant observers that are unbiased? Perhaps Romans in the case of Jesus, and non-Arab tribes or Greeks perhaps in the case of Mohammad.
Their belief is not at issue. The issue is whether or not what they believed was true.
Most of the documented, non-biased reports of him appear after long after his death. We can't even get agreement on events that occured in our life time, some of which are video taped: 911, comes to mind. Apparently, when you repeat something long enough and often enough it eventually becomes true.
There ARE non biblical near contemporary sources that mention Jesus.
Ignoring that I personally have little doubt that Jesus was a historical person... "near contemporary" is rather damning with faint praise. It is pretty much an admission that that "non biblical actual contemporary" sources are nonexistent.
There is also the problem that even most of the "near" contemporary sources are actually later Christian interpolations rather than genuine accounts. The alleged mentions in Josephus, for example are recognized as tampered with even by many conservative Christian apologist. The oldest copy we have of the "Testimonium Flavanium" dates from three centuries after the death of Jesus and contains assertions no Jewish priest would ever have made such as calling him "the Christ" or "the truth." Most obvious however is the line that "the tribe of Christians, so named for him are not extinct to this day." Since there was no "tribe of Christians" during Josephus lifetime, it is rather an obvious later interpolation.
Again... I personally believe that Jesus was an historical person. But this is considered the best non-biblical evidence for that, and it is extremely weak.
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