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I'm sorry...I took exception to the "many Christians"statement.
Believe it or not, some Christians do understand the Biblical teaching on tithing.
I don't think that was what Griffis was speaking about. He/she was pointing out that some Christians (in reference to TWD's comment) arrogantly hold this idea that unbelievers are clueless about what Christians believe as if it is something beyond their grasp. Fact is, many atheists, agnostics an other labeled unbelievers know the Bible VERY well and in some cases, far better than many Christians. They even know the history BEHIND the bible, church history an so on.
I don't think that was what Griffis was speaking about. He/she was pointing out that some Christians (in reference to TWD's comment) arrogantly hold this idea that unbelievers are clueless about what Christians believe as if it is something beyond their grasp. Fact is, many atheists, agnostics an other labeled unbelievers know the Bible VERY well and in some cases, far better than many Christians. They even know the history BEHIND the bible, church history an so on.
Almost daily I see Christians on this board mocked by atheists and agnostics. It is usually in regards to homosexuality, at which point it is stated that a Christian that doesn't live by every command of the OT is a hypocrite. Honestly? I haven't seen anything to believe that you guys understand the idea that there is an Old Covenant, and a New Covenant. We are not a part of the Old Covenant.
Almost daily I see Christians on this board mocked by atheists and agnostics. It is usually in regards to homosexuality, at which point it is stated that a Christian that doesn't live by every command of the OT is a hypocrite. Honestly? I haven't seen anything to believe that you guys understand the idea that there is an Old Covenant, and a New Covenant. We are not a part of the Old Covenant.
Many of us understand "Gospelspeak," Vizio. We know the terms, the concepts, the interpretations and what they mean. Do we believe they make sense in the overall scheme of things and grounded in reality? No. Do we know how it "makes sense" in the Christian realm of understanding? Yes.
I was a Christian for some 17 or so years, probably of the same mold as you (judging by the things I see you type around here). I can pretty much tell you how you will respond to a particular subject before you even type a word. I've been there, done that, have the t-shirt and the mental scars. As early as 1998-1999 (way back on Windows 95), I was on the internet defending Christianity with every ounce of Christian apologetics I knew and trust me, I knew them all. I read the bible cover to cover FOUR times. I SINCERELY dedicated my life to the Christian faith (the fundamentalist/literalist flavor) for years. There are MANY like me and there are a few who on this site. Not all of us mock out of ignorance. We KNOW what we are mocking (if that is what some are doing) and we know quite well what we have discarded.
Don't get me wrong at least. I know MANY fine people who are Christians, not necessarily Christians who are fine people. My mom is one of them and there are some here who I suspect are great people too. Christianity works for them. They can compartmentalize their brains to mix faith and reality. Others are not biblists in the sense you are and they still consider themselves just as much Christian as you are or I was. I guess it is whatever floats their boat, but conversely, many of us former Christians are good people too without having to believe in the Christian god and NO, we on't think of our good deeds as "filthy rags" either.
I don't think that was what Griffis was speaking about. He/she was pointing out that some Christians (in reference to TWD's comment) arrogantly hold this idea that unbelievers are clueless about what Christians believe as if it is something beyond their grasp. Fact is, many atheists, agnostics an other labeled unbelievers know the Bible VERY well and in some cases, far better than many Christians. They even know the history BEHIND the bible, church history an so on.
Thank you. First off, I am a "he."
Secondly, I 'd like to add to what you said by pointing out that, not only do many believers have the idea that nonbelievers are clueless, they often take it much further and claim that nonbelievers cannot understand because they aren't blessed with the gift of faith, etc. and blahblahblah.
I've heard so many times things like:
"Well, you didn't have a real relationship with God..you were duped by Satan or pulled back into worldly things because your faith was weak."
-or-
"Well, you can't comprehend what I comprehend or see what I see because God has enlightened me and you still live in darkness. So sorry about that. How sad for you."
...and so on and so forth.
Also, when you say:
Quote:
They even know the history BEHIND the bible, church history and so on.
...this is very often the reason people become nonbelievers. Once you view history with an open mind and with clarity, and you study the religions of various cultures throughout the ages and across the globe, it becomes very clear that myths and legends from one culture move through other cultures through accretion and become embellished, details are altered to fit with the beliefs and practices of the new culture, etc. etc.
Even with regards to Judeo-Christian myths and stories and beliefs...you can look back past that into history and see where many parts of the OT and NT borrowed from Greek, Egyptian and Mesopotamian cultures and legends. You can actually see the "evolution" of characters like Adam, Eve Yahweh, Satan, etc.
I don't think that was what Griffis was speaking about. He/she was pointing out that some Christians (in reference to TWD's comment) arrogantly hold this idea that unbelievers are clueless about what Christians believe as if it is something beyond their grasp. Fact is, many atheists, agnostics an other labeled unbelievers know the Bible VERY well and in some cases, far better than many Christians. They even know the history BEHIND the bible, church history an so on.
It's not arrogance, nor is it ours to judge whether your desires, faith and actions were always fully oriented to God or if they were predominantly materialistic and double-faced.
You know gabfest, you're absolutely right, that's why it's awful arrogant to assume.... and I make no assumptions because I know of many Christians who know nothing about their sacred book, maybe they should take the time to sit down and read it and educate themselves before speaking about it....
You know gabfest, you're absolutely right, that's why it's awful arrogant to assume.... and I make no assumptions because I know of many Christians who know nothing about their sacred book, maybe they should take the time to sit down and read it and educate themselves before speaking about it....
What some seem to not want to understand is that sacred book is more sacred to you than some Christians.
These days Christianity is a very generic term. For some of us, Heinz 57'ers, it simply means reverence for a Higher power.
Sorry, some our heritages' are not as "pure breed" as others so it would be silly for any of us (my ilk) to walk around with a chip on our shoulders against generations seen and unseen.
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