POLL: Would Your Permit a Woman or Homosexual to Serve Your House of Worship in Order to Save its Existence? (disciples, atheism)

[Woof]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

So a priest or bishop should not have an own opinion and pretend to go with church doctrine even when they disagree?

.

They can have their own PRIVATE opinion .... they'd be considered apostate if it were greatly different from the Catholic Church's .... but if they publicly teach otherwise they are considered heretics (as I suppose I've become for expressing contrary opinions online). Yes, they're being paid and supported to teach Church doctrine and to administer Church sacraments. For example, wouldn't it be wrong if a priest publicly became an atheist and used the Church's pulpit to proclaim the "truth" of atheism? And continued to live off the laity's money donations even if the laity come for authentic Catholic teachings?

That's not so far-fetched, even though the Vatican has been slow to squash heresies in the last few decades such as priests or bishops who publicly state that they don't believe Jesus was God incarnate, or fully God and fully human, or don't believe Jesus bodily rose from the dead but lived on in the hearts of his followers. Those notions are against Church teachings .... they ought to have the decency to leave and earn their own living, or form their own church.

[gizmo980]

Looks like the poll is now 50/50 exactly... it would be interesting to know the religions (or non-religions) of each voter, but I suppose that would be fairly predictable.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Woof

For example, wouldn't it be wrong if a priest publicly became an atheist and used the Church's pulpit to proclaim the "truth" of atheism? And continued to live off the laity's money donations even if the laity come for authentic Catholic teachings?

So a priest who panders* himself to the church is all right, but preaching about what you really believe is wrong?
I believe that Jesus only preached about the things he believed in instead of telling the public what they wanted to hear, or expected to hear.

Personally I'm inclined to only put my faith in people who practice what they preach and not some demagogue**.

* pander 1) v. to solicit customers for a prostitute. 2) n. a pimp, who procures customers for a prostitute or lures a woman into prostitution, all for his own profit. 3) v. catering to special interests without any principles, such as a politician who says to whatever group he/she is addressing just what they want to hear to win their support, contributions, or favors. (See: prostitute)
pander legal definition of pander. pander synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

**dema·gogue· (dem′ə gäg′, gôg′)

noun

1. obsolete a leader of the common people
2. a person who tries to stir up the people by appeals to emotion, prejudice, etc. in order to win them over quickly and so gain power
demagogue: definition, usage and pronunciation - YourDictionary.com

[Mooseketeer]

Should any bigot be entitled to enter the house of God and then preach Christ to others?

[Nikk]

I voted no, because I would not support a church with a gay leader. If the leader was a female I would vote Yes. The vote should be two questions. Being gay or female are not the same thing so they should not be in the same vote.

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by bigthirsty

If many are called but few are chosen then why go out and try to get more people to believe in Jesus? What does that accomplish? The gate is narrow.. we could get everyone to believe but it wouldn't matter because only a few will enter the kingdom right?

Must have missed this post. Sorry 'bout that.

Many being called, but few being chosen, pertains to how all people are invited to become children of God, but only a few will choose to change their lives in accordance with His precepts. It doesn't mean that God will call all people, but only pick a few of them to be saved.

As for the narrow gate, there's more than just "belief" involved when one becomes a Christian. You also have to strive to change your life - to repent of your sins, and obey God - to willingly choose to accept His ways, as opposed to your own. You have to conform to HIS standards, not the world's. There are few people that actually do that. You aren't to lean on your own understanding. I think the wide road/broad gate and narrow road/narrow gate teaching is an illustration of how the road to Heaven is not an easy road. It is full of bumps, distractions, instances of not knowing what's up ahead beyond the trees in your line of sight, uphill climbing, and passages that come treacherously close to the edges of cliffs. It involves a lot of separating yourself from the world, and seeking the truth of Jesus' teachings and allowing your soul and spirit to be molded by God.

[Nikk]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

Should any bigot be entitled to enter the house of God and then preach Christ to others?

Uh.. No.

If someone who is not affiliated with a church feels they must preach, let them go to the street. This is how many evangelists started. If one wants to preach in the church let them go through the proper chanels. If they want to preach something new (i.e. not standard doctrine) then let it should be reviewed.

[Pathwalker]

Originally Posted by Nikk

I voted no, because I would not support a church with a gay leader. If the leader was a female I would vote Yes. The vote should be two questions. Being gay or female are not the same thing so they should not be in the same vote.

Curious....how do you view Paul's words that women are to remain silent in church, nor are they to usurp authority over man?

[Nikk]

Originally Posted by bigthirsty

If many are called but few are chosen then why go out and try to get more people to believe in Jesus? What does that accomplish? The gate is narrow.. we could get everyone to believe but it wouldn't matter because only a few will enter the kingdom right?

Back to the OT... I wouldn't care if Mr. Ed the horse was speaking.. if the message is good.. then the message is good.

It is what it is..

The bible says in Revelation "And I beheld in a great multitude of people which no man could number from every tribe, kindred, family and nation." ...Sounds like there is going to be alot of people in heaven and I would rather be there than the alternative. We tell people about Christ because we want them to join us for eternity. It is written that a wise man saves souls. Why is it wise? Why is it good to rescue a drowning person, because we want them to continue to enjoy life with us. The same stands true for eternity.

As far as who's speaking. It says that the devils know the scriptures and fear and tremble, so if Satan was quoting scripture I still wouldn't listen. The reason is because he was a lier and murderer form the begining and even if he told the truth, it would be for an evil intent. You have to be careful who you listen to because of their motive not what they say.

[Nikk]

Originally Posted by Tek_Freek

Why does it have to get to the point that the church is going to close before considering either?

So some of you won't accept gays as leaders. Afraid they'll molest the kiddies? Have you read the newspapers for the last 20 years? Afraid they'll be a bad influence on children by giving them gayness, or contaminating them in some way? Have you read the newspapers for the last 20 years?

Exactly what dangers are inherent in women or gays being a church leader that haven't already been foisted upon the children by male, heterosexual predators? Predators that are consistently moved to a new area so they can abuse a new group of trusting parishioners?

I'll take my chances with an honest, open, "hey I'm gay", male or a woman (at least give the young boys a chance at sex with a female) before one of these perverts.

Yes, I don't want them influencing children. By letting gays in a place of authority the church would be saying it's OK to be gay, when it is not. Homosexuality is a sin. If a gay person wants to come to church that is OK, because any sinner can come into the church. Hopefully after being accepted and ministered to the individual would choose to depart from their sin. Just like any liar, thief, murderer there is mercy from Christ for forgiveness. The gay or any other adulterers (because that is what being gay is an adulterer ie one of the Ten Commandments) hopefully should turn from their wicked ways. If they choose not to then they should remain in the pew not at the pulpit.

It is not an issue of fearing gay people it is an issue of righteousness. I don't fear people, I fear(respect) God who will one day judge us all for our actions.

It also is not about getting our children to have sex with the right people. It is about our children making the correct decission of marrying the person that God has for them (That is a person of the opposite sex).