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Well, different strokes I suppose... Actually, defying God had absolutely nothing to do with why I (or probably most of the Mormons in the parade) marched. I think most of us felt that the Mormons who treat gays like second-class citizens are the ones who are defying Jesus Christ. The last thing I ever intend to do is cut God out of my life. That may work for some people, but it wouldn't for me.
I've seen this type of comment before from religious folks. I'm just curious if you would say that overlooking any other sin and supporting the person doing it would be viewed the same way?
For instance, would you march in support of adulterers (gay or straight)?
I've seen this type of comment before from religious folks. I'm just curious if you would say that overlooking any other sin and supporting the person doing it would be viewed the same way?
I don't think we should love only those people whose sins we consider to be less serious than our own. I don't believe in casting stones, in other words.
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For instance, would you march in support of adulterers (gay or straight)?
I think you may be missing the point, Vizio. The LDS Church has historically taken such a strong stand against LGBT folks that many of our young people, upon coming out, have felt so alone, isolated and un-loved by their families and straight friends that they've chosen to take their own lives. Mormonism is all about family. This march was not so much about supporting gay sex as it was about choosing to continue to make gays and lesbians feel welcome and loved in our church.
There is an LDS children's song that says:
"Jesus turned away from none. He gave His love to everyone."
That's all we were trying to encourage people to do. I don't see anything wrong with that.
I don't think we should love only people whose sins we consider to be less serious than our own. I don't believe in casting stones, in other words.
I think you may be missing the point, Vizio. The LDS Church has historically taken such a strong stand against LGBT folks that many of our young people, upon coming out, have felt so alone, isolated and un-loved by their families and straight friends that they've chosen to take their own lives. Mormonism is all about family. This march was not so much about supporting gay sex as it was about choosing to continue to make gays and lesbians feel welcome and loved in our church.
There is an LDS children's song that says:
"Jesus turned away from none. He gave His love to everyone."
That's all we were trying to encourage people to do.
I completely agree with you that we need to love on everyone. I'm curious why that would be equated why that would be equated with walking in support of a lifestyle of sin?
Would you do the same for people protesting their right to adultery? Or drunkenness? Or ANY other sin?
I completely agree with you that we need to love on everyone. I'm curious why that would be equated why that would be equated with walking in support of a lifestyle of sin?
Would you do the same for people protesting their right to adultery? Or drunkenness? Or ANY other sin?
It's not about their "right to sin." It's about our "responsibility to love." It's about living our own lives the best we can and leaving the judgment of others up to God. I'm sorry if my explanation didn't make sense to you, but I just can't dumb it down any further.
It's not about their "right to sin." It's about our "responsibility to love." I'm sorry if my explanation didn't make sense to you, but I just can't dumb it down any further.
Alright...I gotcha. You feel you're supporting them and expressing love. That's admirable. I commend you for your desire to love people.
I wonder, though, that since it's in the setting of a march, that perhaps we're sending the message that it isn't sinful behavior.
Alright...I gotcha. You feel you're supporting them and expressing love. That's admirable. I commend you for your desire to love people.
I wonder, though, that since it's in the setting of a march, that perhaps we're sending the message that it isn't sinful behavior.
Clearly, since you took it that way, I suppose some other people might, too. That's not the message we intended to send, though, and I think if you'd been there, you'd have been able to see that.
You asked about whether I'd march in support of drunkenness. Let me answer you this way... As you may know, we Mormons have a health code which prohibits, among other things, the use of tobacco. There are members of our Church, however, who are addicted to smoking. You can smell the smoke on them from ten feet away. Their teeth and fingers are discolored. They don't have to tell people they smoke; it's obvious to anyone. Many of these people would attend LDS worship services if they felt they were welcome, but they feel as if they would be judged for the "sin" that everyone knows they're guilty of, so they stay home. If there was a parade I could march in that encouraged these people to return to church (even if they couldn't break their smoking habit), I would march in it. If they knew people in the congregation would welcome them and be willing to sit by them, that would make me really happy.
Sco, tithing funds are not used to fund anti-LGBT causes and political campaigns. You've made your contempt for Mormonism so clear in the past, that I'm just giving you a heads up right now: I've answered your question. I have nothing more to say to you on the subject.
Are you claiming that the LDS church didn't spend millions on the anti-gay side of the Prop 8 campaign? It has been estimated that the LDS church spent $20 million dollars on that one campaign alone.
So, my comtempt isn't for the Mormon religion, it is for the hypocrisy and outright lies displayed by many Mormons. Your claim that the LDS church does not fund anti-gay causes and political campaigns is just one example of that behavior.
Are you claiming that the LDS church didn't spend millions on the anti-gay side of the Prop 8 campaign? It has been estimated that the LDS church spent $20 million dollars on that one campaign alone.
So, my comtempt isn't for the Mormon religion, it is for the hypocrisy and outright lies displayed by many Mormons. Your claim that the LDS church does not fund anti-gay causes and political campaigns is just one example of that behavior.
How is it wrong for them to take a stand politically?
How is it wrong for them to take a stand politically?
It's not, unless they want to remain tax exempt. If you want to pay taxes like any for-profit business, you can advocate for all the candidates and political positions you want. However, those things are against the rules that regulate tax exempt organizations. If you stand up in your pulpit and recommend that your parishioners vote against Proposition 8, you risk the tax exempt status of your church.
It's not, unless they want to remain tax exempt. If you want to pay taxes like any for-profit business, you can advocate for all the candidates and political positions you want. However, those things are against the rules that regulate tax exempt organizations. If you stand up in your pulpit and recommend that your parishioners vote against Proposition 8, you risk the tax exempt status of your church.
So take away their tax exempt status. I have no issue with that.
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