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If you had read clearly, you would see that I understand abandoning a set of beliefs. What I don't believe a person can do is abandon the love of Christ.
Fair enough. I just don't believe you can grow past the love of Christ. It's like saying you can stop loving your child.
Not exactly, since a child is a "part" of each parent. Still some parents do stop loving their children, for various reasons. A better analogy would be loving a spouse. If a woman falls out of love and leaves her husband because he turned out to be abusive or a cheater, one cannot conclude that she NEVER loved him.
Not exactly, since a child is a "part" of each parent. Still some parents do stop loving their children, for various reasons. A better analogy would be loving a spouse. If a woman falls out of love and leaves her husband because he turned out to be abusive or a cheater, one cannot conclude that she NEVER loved him.
When a person becomes a Christian, God's Spirit indwells them. He becomes a part of us. Scripture calls it a "seal". There's no way that can be broken.
Several of you spoke of your experience. All I saw was talking about beliefs. No one talked about a relationship with Christ. There is a difference.
How can one have a relationship with a fictional character? The majority of posters here have stated that they may have had what they thought was a relationship with Christ, and later saw the fallacy of such a belief and grew beyond it. That is the only reality I perceive. Contrary to a child who wants to have a relationship with Santa Claus, he eventually grows beyond that absurdity. Sadly, there is a huge population of adults who cannot and will not wake up and face the reality of no savior.
No one can "make" themselves believe something they don't believe. They can pretend, they can fake it, but they cannot convince themselves that something is true if their mind/heart/soul/spirit/whatever become absolutely convinced it is not true.
That is absolutely true, and I wish more people would understand that there is nothing at all anyone can do to make themselves believe. It is not a choice. They can certainly want to believe very much and try to convince themselves, and even become quite good at pretending to. But there is nothing at all a person can do to make themselves believe. Either you do or you don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne
But I can choose to be a kind, compassionate, caring, respectful person. I can choose to not look down on others in judgement because their beliefs or lifestyle choices are different than mine. I can choose to love. I can choose to not assume that my agnostic neighbor is going to hell, I can choose to not judge my coworkers because they like to <fill in the blank with the sin of your choice>. Much in the bible is confusing, many nitpicky points are debated ad nauseum.....but the one message of the bible that I choose to believe and follow is to love all people.
That is certainly a choice you do have; and I get the feeling that a good portion of people who do believe tend to miss that last point somehow. But then it is awfully hard to love people and so much easier to hate them. And in my experience (I am more so referring to myself personally) I have found those who believe to have so many more faults and flaws in their character than those who do not. It is so much easier to be selfish and hate others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne
IF there is a god, I think s/he likes the person I am now better than who I was before.
I want to believe this is true.
Last edited by Basiliximab; 06-17-2013 at 09:24 PM..
Fair enough. I just don't believe you can grow past the love of Christ. It's like saying you can stop loving your child.
Trust me, some can. Especially if they turn atheist. But then you can say that they never really loved them in the first place... uh, no....better make that they failed to be worthy of that love....or they are still 'Loved' but in a sorta tough way designed to coax them back to faith.
We just know that there is no true believer that we can be sure of as being immune to doubt and questioning.
I know at least my faith is weak at times. Coming from a scientific background, I find it rather absurd to believe in something for which there is no objective evidence. To me, doubt and questioning is just natural, a consequence of existing in the physical world; there's no one alive who is perfect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eloyfan
How can one have a relationship with a fictional character? The majority of posters here have stated that they may have had what they thought was a relationship with Christ, and later saw the fallacy of such a belief and grew beyond it. That is the only reality I perceive. Contrary to a child who wants to have a relationship with Santa Claus, he eventually grows beyond that absurdity. Sadly, there is a huge population of adults who cannot and will not wake up and face the reality of no savior.
For me it is just impossible to explain (in a way that would make any sense) to someone who hasn't had the experience. Perhaps someone else can, but it's just not something that I can do. I understand your point of view though. To me it makes perfect sense.
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Trust me, some can. Especially if they turn atheist. But then you can say that they never really loved them in the first place...
uh, no....better make that they failed to be worthy of that love....or they are still 'Loved' but in a sorta tough way designed to coax them back to faith.
