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Then no word "has to be" what it is. "Cake" could mean my car. "Stupid illiterate forum poster" could be an airplane.
But for communication to work there has to be at least some consistency to language. It does not have to be static and rigid either, but a certain minimum level of consistency is required. "god" has some very common meanings and relabeling things that already have labels as "god" for no other reason than to be able to say "god exists" does nothing at all save make the speaker look silly and desperate.
It is just linguistic trickery and desperation we are seeing from the OP and people like yourself. Nothing more.
I agree Nozz..."for communication to work there has to be at least some consistency to language. It does not have to be static and rigid either, but a certain minimum level of consistency is required. "god" has some very common meanings".
So...let's define "God".
Not my definition, or your definition...but from an expert source known to define words.
The logical and reasonable thing to do to obtain a definition...would be to refer to a source that is KNOWN to provide definitions. Then you will get a definition that is untainted by "opinion".
Here ya go:
god noun \ˈgäd also ˈgȯd\
Definition of GOD
1
capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as
a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe
b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2
: a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3
: a person or thing of supreme value
4
: a powerful ruler
Examples of GOD
Does she believe in God?
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix
Note the portions highlighted in green.
NOW...dig real good on that Full and Complete definition of "God".
Provided in a way that eliminates bias, prejudice, confusion, or ignorance...through an independent, expert source.
Then, through solid evidence gained by way of direct observation, various genres of the Sciences, and the direct observation and information of the masses throughout the history of mankind...determine if there is, or has been, anything that falls within any definition of "God" given by the independent, expert definer.
Of course...IF there is anything that can be objectively determined to exist, or has existed, that fits the definition...then God Exists and/or Existed. IF NOT...God Doesn't Exist and/or Never Existed.
Check that out and get back to us on what you have found to be the FACTS/EVIDENCE/PROOF of the matter.
So, there ya go. I await the results you come up with.
I am alive in the west in the 21st c with enough cash to live on and good health.
I could have been a two year old bronze age kid knocked on the head and buried under a city wall. I could have been a Chinese peasant killed, piled up and burned in the Taiping rebellion. I am not. Where I am is as 'miraculous' as us being alive at all, and no more. That is not proof of the existence of a god, but a far too easy pretext for believing it.
You have every right to believe it is 'proof' but I have every right to disabuse you.
The defects in man are not proof that there is no God. God is not some grand father in the sky that over sees and protects his creations...it is more of a thing that is beyond our comprehension and beyond physics as we know them. When people say "How could a God have allowed that poor child to die..there must be no God" _ To God their is no such thing as birth - or death...there is no such thing as existence or non-existence..and there is no such thing as time and space...Put it this way...when we or life in general came into being - like a vast experiment we were cut loose to fend for ourselves and given free will to develop and evolve or suffer de-evolution if that would be the case.
To be blunt with you- Religion and God like church and state must be thought of in separate terms to be understood to even a small degree. To those that believe GOD is an impossibility...all I can say is ALL is possible and those that restrict their thoughts in these regards usually suffer from a slight intellectual deficit and atheistic thinking is not as evolved or sophisticated as some would like to BELIEVE.
The defects in man are not proof that there is no God. God is not some grand father in the sky that over sees and protects his creations...it is more of a thing that is beyond our comprehension and beyond physics as we know them. When people say "How could a God have allowed that poor child to die..there must be no God" _ To God their is no such thing as birth - or death...there is no such thing as existence or non-existence..and there is no such thing as time and space...Put it this way...when we or life in general came into being - like a vast experiment we were cut loose to fend for ourselves and given free will to develop and evolve or suffer de-evolution if that would be the case.
If God is beyond all comprehension or knowledge, outside of time and space or any conception of existence or non-existence, then why should any human being care about God? We can all just forget about the whole thing and get on with our lives, right?
Or maybe God does exist in our reality since he allegedly sent his son Jesus to roam here on earth. I think we're dealing with 2 different definitions of God here.
Does anybody know WHO came up with the name GOD????
The short answer is probably not definitively.
The longer answer is it appear to come from the common ancestor of Greek, Latin and Sanskrit that is referred to as Proto-Indo-European. More recently is comes from the Germanic language family and Old English...
Probably not the answer you are looking for, but...
Does anybody know WHO came up with the name GOD????
"God" is not a name per se...it is a title that is assigned to something/someone that is perceived to be. Like "President", or "King", or "Prime Minister", or "Justice", or "Champion".
This, I believe, is the root of the confusion.
All "Gods" of mythology, and otherwise, have names. "God" is a title assigned to those people or things.
I agree Nozz..."for communication to work there has to be at least some consistency to language. It does not have to be static and rigid either, but a certain minimum level of consistency is required. "god" has some very common meanings".
So...let's define "God".
Not my definition, or your definition...but from an expert source known to define words.
The logical and reasonable thing to do to obtain a definition...would be to refer to a source that is KNOWN to provide definitions. Then you will get a definition that is untainted by "opinion".
Here ya go:
god noun \ˈgäd also ˈgȯd\
Definition of GOD
1
capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as
a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe
b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2
: a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3
: a person or thing of supreme value
4
: a powerful ruler
Examples of GOD
Does she believe in God?
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix
Note the portions highlighted in green.
NOW...dig real good on that Full and Complete definition of "God".
Provided in a way that eliminates bias, prejudice, confusion, or ignorance...through an independent, expert source.
Then, through solid evidence gained by way of direct observation, various genres of the Sciences, and the direct observation and information of the masses throughout the history of mankind...determine if there is, or has been, anything that falls within any definition of "God" given by the independent, expert definer.
Of course...IF there is anything that can be objectively determined to exist, or has existed, that fits the definition...then God Exists and/or Existed. IF NOT...God Doesn't Exist and/or Never Existed.
Check that out and get back to us on what you have found to be the FACTS/EVIDENCE/PROOF of the matter.
So, there ya go. I await the results you come up with.
I agree that is the only definition that we can come up with for the sort of god we are talking about, but it really doesn't tell us anything other than it is everything all at once and we should worship it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach
The defects in man are not proof that there is no God. God is not some grand father in the sky that over sees and protects his creations...it is more of a thing that is beyond our comprehension and beyond physics as we know them. When people say "How could a God have allowed that poor child to die..there must be no God" _ To God their is no such thing as birth - or death...there is no such thing as existence or non-existence..and there is no such thing as time and space...Put it this way...when we or life in general came into being - like a vast experiment we were cut loose to fend for ourselves and given free will to develop and evolve or suffer de-evolution if that would be the case.
I had no intention of disproving God. What I disproved is that your 'we exist' argument is any proof of god -which is what you said. Or rather it was enough for you. I proved at least that it wasn't enough for me. (p.s and shouldn't - if reason and evidence counts for anything, be enough for you)
Quote:
To be blunt with you- Religion and God like church and state must be thought of in separate terms to be understood to even a small degree. To those that believe GOD is an impossibility...all I can say is ALL is possible and those that restrict their thoughts in these regards usually suffer from a slight intellectual deficit and atheistic thinking is not as evolved or sophisticated as some would like to BELIEVE.
I appreciate your bluntness and you are right. Cosmic origins is an academic matter and since there is no real proof either way, there is no logical belief position than not to. The demand that no knowledge means that we must believe that a god exists until there is definite proof there is not is unsound logic. And while unsound logic is fine for theist apologists it just means that they have embraced foolishness as wisdom.
As to the religion and its personal gods like church and state, we have definite checkable claims and material to examine and there we are do not remain agnostic. We know it is brickdust, just as we know claims that fairies and leprechauns are real are equally brickdust.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-10-2013 at 07:27 PM..
Who? Jillions of people.
The title "God" can be assigned to anything/anybody by anyone that perceives something/someone to be such. It's arbitrary and subjective...and of the concept held by the assigner.
And, as respects the gist of the thread...Thus, "God" most certainly exists.
If you want. Go for it. But if you, like the OP, have no motivation for doing so other than to relabel other things as "god" for the sole goal of being able to say "god exists" then I have no interest in your linguistic obfuscations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule
the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe
That would be the most commonly held understanding of the word in peoples minds in my experience. I am all for this definition. The trouble for me would be simply that there is not a shred of substantiation for the idea that such a being actually exists. Much less from you, the OP, or any of your cohorts who resort to redefining metaphors as "god" in order to get "god" to exist.
The defects in man are not proof that there is no God.
There is no onus on anyone to prove there is no god. It is enough to point out that the idea there is one is not just slightly, but ENTIRELY unsubstantiated. These defects do not prove no god, but instead torpedo some of the "arguments" for why people think there is one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach
those that restrict their thoughts in these regards usually suffer from a slight intellectual deficit and atheistic thinking is not as evolved or sophisticated as some would like to BELIEVE.
Ah the old "If you do not agree with me then you have some fault" trick. Ad Hominem and insult much?
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