News, New York Community Objects to Small Christmas Tree Next to 'Giant' Menorah. (salvation, church)

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by wildberries61

I don't believe Christians of TODAY can take responsibility for THOUSANDS of years ago . That would be like blaming the Jews of TODAY for the killing of Jesus. We ALL must move ahead,if you keep looking back that is where you will stay.
Remember it was the Christan Nation that rescued your people from Hitler. While, other nations sat by.

Then why did my ancestors have to flee to this country illegally? Why did my great great aunts and uncles DIE in the Holocaust because their boat was turned away from the United States?

Yes, I did say that for Christians it's ALL about the leading up to Dec. 25th. For some it's about the Santa Claus for others it's to see the Nativity Scene and Christmas performances. I'm not going to get into the celebration this is a personal ritual with families and I was not referring to the placing of the menorah.

And for Jews, it's ALL about this week. All we ask for is ONE week.

You know VERY little if anything, about the rural American Christians. You seem to speak of the Christians in the cities. Maybe, you're only seeing one or two sides of Christianity, Christians come in many denominations.
Yes, I'm a little bummed Christians don't run the U.S.. But, then again I don't feel ALL Christians are REAL Christians, so it would take some weeding out. I'm not saying all Christan's have good intentions, but there are some that could turn this whole mess around in the Middle East and make our world a better place.

I know plenty about rural American Christians and it's certainly NOT something I would brag about. It was rural American Christians who burned a cross on my lawn, who insisted on serving me pork and ham sandwiches for years (and told me I was rude for not eating it), and who have had ZERO respect for my religion or other different religions.

As a Jew you probably don't understand, but as a Christian, I'm fully aware there will be a time, when Christmas will no longer be seen in America, as Jesus Birthday. The day that Jesus is put aside will be the day that Jews and Christians will feel persecution. Jews are not the only one's that will feel the pain.
So you might want to watch all those smirk remarks you make about Christan's getting a dose of their own medicine. When we are no longer around or have no say, you will see a different America you might not like.
I'm sure you think by living in America that we will always have a President that will protect Israel with diversity there will become HATE for Israel in the West and cause more problems for the Jews in America.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. It's only been "rural American Christians" who I have EVER been mistreated by for my religion, regardless of where in America I was. Never by a Muslim. Never by an Atheist. Hell, never even by Catholic branches of Christianity. Just rural Protestants. And by the way, don't be so fast to associate Jews with Israel. I wish the US would STOP propping up Israel as long as it breaks Geneva Convention laws. I'd be glad for a day when all religions and lack thereof are represented in the government and I don't understand why you seem to have such a doom and gloom view of things.

I was only giving you a Rabbi's opinion. I own a Professional cleaning business and work for Jewish people in our Artistic mountain town and I have yet to see a display of the menorah in their homes. My chiropractor and her husband, he is Jewish, she is Buddhist. For the most part they do nothing, her mom ( she's not Jewish) made them a Menorah flag and they hang it on the wall and every other year they put up a tree. They are a big part of the community even their dog "SPOT" is well known by the locals.
It's not like I live in a ALL WHITE CHRISTIAN TOWN!!!
We have blacks ,Asians & Mexicans and we ALL just celebrate Christmas they might have there own way of saying Merry Christmas, but no one is offended.

So the Jews in your town don't celebrate Chanukah? Big deal! Plenty of Christians don't put up trees or lights. In my mother's family, the families without children did not have menorahs and instead would all go over to another's house. It's not that uncommon.

I see plenty of diversity in the rural part of AMERICA. Seems to me you see a lot of HATE and DISCONTENT in your city. You speak of all the hate toward Jews. Maybe you need to get out and see the center of America before you feel like the Jews are being mistreated.
I don't see this at all in small towns they are treated like everyone else and they are happy to help out with the Lighting of the Tree and involved in our Christmas and winter festivities without looking like they are being forced to be involved or feeling out of place.
No, I think I will just travel rural America and get to know the people that made America what it is.

The center of America has plenty of hate towards Jews as well. But since you think you are so persecuted then maybe you wouldn't know what real persecution looks like. How would you know how little Jewish kids feel about lighting the tree? It made me feel like CRAP as a kid. Nobody cared. All the Christmas stuff in school made me so upset that I would make myself sick in order to stay out of school. Rural communities foster this kind of hidden emotion for those who are different. A Christian person has no bearing to understand what that's like because they choose to ignore it.

[Tricky D]

Yeah, well, when people complain about size, it often has to do with their peni.... I mean insecurity.

[wildberries61]

Originally Posted by charolastra00

Then why did my ancestors have to flee to this country illegally? Why did my great great aunts and uncles DIE in the Holocaust because their boat was turned away from the United States?

Did you miss the part where I said of TODAY. Christians are OUT THERE trying to make it a better place and people like you are making it very difficult to get past the HATE issue. Do you really think OUR MILITARY mostly Christians are over in IRAQ for OIL and DEMOCRACY in IRAQ. No we are protecting Israel from being NUKED!!!

And for Jews, it's ALL about this week. All we ask for is ONE week.

You can have it I never said you couldn't. As I see from sites I have visited it's more then one week that you celebrate and that wasn't the point. I think most of you have such a ANGER toward Christians you saw past the Christians wanting the Tree to be the same size to represent our religion also. We do celebrate and always have the month of Dec as Christ Birthday. WELCOME TO AMERICA!!!!!
Not for you, but Christians do feel a connection to Jews. God tells us, HIS Son is a Jew. And that no one should go against Israel . It would just be nice if you realized Christians are NOT all the same!!!! And that you are carrying an anger way past any HATE I would ever have for you.

I know plenty about rural American Christians and it's certainly NOT something I would brag about. It was rural American Christians who burned a cross on my lawn, who insisted on serving me pork and ham sandwiches for years (and told me I was rude for not eating it), and who have had ZERO respect for my religion or other different religions.

How did you treat them when you walked into town!!!! I'm real sorry for your experience. I do have to wonder what your calling rural America. And who you put your self with. This is nothing I have seen and if anything the locals go out of there way to help ethnic people the Mexicans have been given there own section in the grocery stores.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. It's only been "rural American Christians" who I have EVER been mistreated by for my religion, regardless of where in America I was. Never by a Muslim. Never by an Atheist. Hell, never even by Catholic branches of Christianity. Just rural Protestants. And by the way, don't be so fast to associate Jews with Israel. I wish the US would STOP propping up Israel as long as it breaks Geneva Convention laws. I'd be glad for a day when all religions and lack thereof are represented in the government and I don't understand why you seem to have such a doom and gloom view of things.

Like I said how was your attitude and what did you do to introduce your self or were you just there for the moment??? I put Israel in a Biblical way by NO MEANS do I believe that Jews and Israel have also, not caused some of the problems in the Middle East. But it also goes to the Muslim countries that are NOT helping and would like to see Isreal and the U.S. gone. I don't have a doom and gloom out look I just know that as a Christian I will continue to defend my rights just as you would like to.
I also know that if OUR government decides to go to war to defend Isreal that my 2 boys will be there defending and possibly dying for a country that some of it's people carry hate for Christians. How about you what do you have to give up????

So the Jews in your town don't celebrate Chanukah? Big deal! Plenty of Christians don't put up trees or lights. In my mother's family, the families without children did not have menorahs and instead would all go over to another's house. It's not that uncommon.

Don't give me this. I wouldn't have commented if they didn't have money. If they can afford my cleaning they can afford their needs.The reason I commented, was so you could see my relationship with Jews and see that I didn't understand the importance, because in 15 years I have not seen one menorah in a Jewish home.

The center of America has plenty of hate towards Jews as well. But since you think you are so persecuted then maybe you wouldn't know what real persecution looks like. How would you know how little Jewish kids feel about lighting the tree? It made me feel like CRAP as a kid. Nobody cared. All the Christmas stuff in school made me so upset that I would make myself sick in order to stay out of school. Rural communities foster this kind of hidden emotion for those who are different. A Christian person has no bearing to understand what that's like because they choose to ignore it.

Sounds to me you have plenty of hate for RURAL AMERICA because when you get here it's not ALL given to you others tend to have that problem also. You do have to survive on your own. There's plenty of friendliness I don't think you gave it a chance or excepted it to all been done for you.

[wildberries61]

Originally Posted by gizmo980

I only have two responses, since I'm trying to let this whole issue die (and maybe enjoy the rest of my Chanukah)...

1. I was joking about being offended by Jesus... I am not, nor have I ever been, offended by someone I don't believe in. Are you offended by Buddha? That would be pretty silly, huh? I actually love certain things about the Christmas holiday, and would never want to see it die away - the beautiful lights & decorations are reason enough to keep it around! We're just asking for less whining if & when another religion decides to join in the season.

2. San Francisco is a very harmonious, tolerant, and diverse city... nobody (generally speaking) here is angry about Christmas, and it's in full-swing all over town. We have 3 CHRISTMAS tree lots in my neighborhood alone, and two giant ones displayed at Union Square & Fisherman's Wharf. But at the same time, we also have plenty of Chanukah & other holiday stuff, which nobody has complained or competed about. My street is comprised mostly of Chinese Buddhists, but other nearby streets are filled with "Christmas cheer." That's why I love living here, rather than rural America - which I have visited, lived in, and know plenty about, thankyouverymuch. Enjoy your holidays, and I will hopefully enjoy the rest of mine.

Sorry, but that really didn't sound like a joke. I do except your explantion. You and others seem to do your part of whining, with out recognizing and only accuse Christians of this!!

Don't think it's going to get any better just look at how Colorado handled it!!! ....................No Christmas Decorations In Fort Collins This Year - ACLU - Minority Wins

I'm with you I'm done!! Enjoy your HOLIDAYS

[Davachka]

So you clean people's homes and don't see menorah's in them? And this makes you an authority on Judaism or even anything besides how to get stains off the counter? Ridiculous?!
This is a joke- I would not even respond or waste my time on ignorance like this? After all, who wants to be a whiner thats just accusing Christians?
And no, they're not in Iraq saving Israel, but if thats what they tell you out there in rural America, then why would you educate and learn any better? What a joke?!

[SmerkyGrl]

The much-known but rarely-acknowledged Christian inferiority complex finally rears its ugly head...and thus rising its spawn like some comments in this thread with it. So sad. Good thing I neither have a penis nor a taste for "my decorations are bigger than your's". So much for rejoicing in the season of peace and well-wishing. Tsk tsk.

[charolastra00]

Wildberry- I was 4 years old. What kind of attitude could I have copped as a 4 year old. Please. No, the nice, sweet rural American Christians saw me and my younger brother as easy targets for their hate. But you know, I guess I was REALLY asking to be told to go to hell every day of my life from age 4 to age 10 when I finally was able to stick up for myself. I guess my attitude was just that bad that people were out to save me.

How could I "give it a chance" when all I ever experienced in my entire childhood was hatred and loathing toward me? Yeah.. I was really asking for it.

[wildberries61]

If I have offended you then that was not my intentions. For the most part ALL of you must remember AMERICA at one time was a MOSTLY CHRISTIAN nation and had very Christian values that we were raised with as children and around Christmas. Most of these kids go along with the Christmas Traditions because the schools put them on so is this THE LITTLE CHRISTIAN CHILD'S fault!!! Take it up with the school system if you don't like it. :rolleyes In my experience, I never said in my expertise that I knew about Jewish rituals.

And yes, even as a teenager I babysat for Jewish families and still did NOT see a Menorah. So this isn't only in my work I have not seen them. I was NOT trying to act like I new your faith ONLY what I have experienced. Sorry I haven't been around the right Jewish people.
Only until I have come on to CD have I had experience with bitter Jews I must say. I in no way was attacking each one of you.

For such a horrible place that all of you complain about AMERICA being, I see your all still living in the United States of America!!!

[Claire_F]

Jesus Christ, wildberries - calm down! You're getting your berries in a bunch over your perceived anger at Christians, when you're the one doing the shouting and displaying the anger.

Originally Posted by wildberries61

Christmas has been an American tradition and it's associated with the Birth of Jesus weather others want to accept this or NOT. I don't understand the other traditions and the fuss when they don't even believe in Jesus. What happened to just enjoying the SEASON and not trying to change the meaning.!!!

This is your original post. No one is trying to change the meaning of Christmas. The "season" in question is the month of December, which has traditions in addition to Christmas. The "season" has different meanings to different people. You're confusing Christmas with December. Christmas takes place in December, but it is not what December is all about for everyone.

Everywhere you look on TV, in magazines, EVERYWHERE is about Christmas. What is the harm in allowing groups of other faiths to display their religious symbols?

Again, no one is trying to change the meaning of Christmas. However, it seems a lot of people have forgotten it in their fervor to "protect their right" to celebrate it. It doesn't have to be ALL Christmas, ALL the time. Show a little respect to people of other faiths, instead of proclaiming the "superiority" of yours.

Oh, and for all your proclamations, America is not a theocracy - as much as you might like it to be.

[june 7th]

Moderator cut: HOLIDAY GREETINGS, everyone...Emphasis on HOLIDAYS. Emphasis, as well, on the tone of this thread. If it continues along it's contentious path, June is just going to have to say "ho, ho, ho" and close it down...Without any further warnings. Happy Holidays!