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Can you compare God who is perfect to man who is imperfect?
Heh, that's just it, though. Because God is perfect, there is no excuse for God when he does stupid things. Humanity can be forgiven for our mistakes because we aren't perfect. Nor are we omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and omni-benevolent.
With all of those "omnis" it means God has no wriggle room for theologians to claim things like, "God had no choice" or "God can't ... " (such as "God can't stand being in the presence of sin"), or "God had to ..."
God should be held to the highest imaginable standard - but he isn't. Instead, we make truckloads of excuses for God up to and including the standard "he works in mysterious ways" excuse.
The reality, of course, is that an imperfect mortal being could never write about a perfect God. It's impossible. The fact that there are scads of imperfections in the Bible - including God's behavior - proves beyond a shadow that the Bible (and hence God) was invented by imperfect beings. The inventors of deities simply have no conception of what "perfect" actually looks like so they were trapped into giving God the personality of the only creature that could think and reason - humanity. Hence why it is that gods - including Yahweh - act like childish humans instead of bearing the dignity and poise of a true divine and perfect entity.
So in answer to your question, yer darn tootin' I can compare imperfect Man with perfect God because they are one and the same. It's like comparing apples with apples. God reacts to his own struggles in EXACTLY the same way many humans would if they had unlimited power. In other words, the power of God had corrupted, a victim of his Bible's own advice: Absolute power always absolutely corrupts. All we have to do is see the Great Flood to realize just how true that axiom actually is - even when absolute power only exists in our imaginations.
Supposedly after satan has rebelled against God and there was this cosmic battle between billions of angels (2/3's good against 1/3 evil--how's that for convenient narrative.
Anyway, after satan rebelled, he's allowed to come and go in heaven as often as he please and even have audiences with God, the Perfect Being who is so holy He cannot be in the presence of even the slightest stain of sin and satan is pure sin incarnate. Can someone please explain to me how even the slightest sin, say a white lie, will still get us thrown into hell to be tortured for all eternity if we don't repent and ask forgiveness in Jesus' name, but satan who is full of the grossest sins imaginables gets to stand in God's presence regularly and God is not the slightest bit disgusted or offended by satan's presence? If God can stand to be in satan's presence, what's His problem with being in mine, who has done far, far less evil that satan?
Does anyone here sense a serious--I mean MAJOR disconnect in logic in all this if you're trying to say that the Bible is literal and completely factual?
Keep reading the Bible over and aver you'll get it.
Are you open to the idea that you may not have a perfect understanding of the bible and your religion. Sure, you've got the basics, but do you completely interpret and translate it perfectly?
I think this justifies some independent inquiry on your part. I'm not asking you to doubt Christianity, to stop worshiping in God or trusting Jesus for your salvation.
But I am asking you to reconsider what is the proper way to interpret the bible.
Nobody thinks they are interpreting the Bible wrong way, but some people must be. Are you open to the idea that you may be wrong? Maybe the literal interpretation isn't the way it was meant to be read.
I think one of the significant dillusions most fundamentalists harbor is that all other ways to interpret scripture are somehow lesser 'interpretations' than fundamentalism, when in fact fundamentalism itself is an interpretation.
By definition, an interpretation is a particular way of analyzing/perceiving something based on certain assumptions and premises. Considering this, fundamentalism is one of many biblical interpretations, and based on my understanding of history, it seems like one of the most intellectually lazy.
It's my understanding that prior to the 'scientific revolution' beginning in the late 1500s, very few circles believed in fundamentalism. Prior to this most of the bible was regarded as allegorical. Fundamentalism rose primarily as a response the the perceived threat of the scientific revolution. Basically, the fundamentalists thought science might some day make the bible irrelevant unless it was interpreted as the infallible, literal word of god.
Most importantly though, fundamentalism is just of many biblical interpretations.
The reality, of course, is that an imperfect mortal being could never write about a perfect God. It's impossible. The fact that there are scads of imperfections in the Bible - including God's behavior - proves beyond a shadow that the Bible (and hence God) was invented by imperfect beings.
You won't see it the way I see it but your post has two main themes and here's where you jump from one theme to the second theme:
Theme one: The reality, of course, is that an imperfect mortal being could never write about a perfect God. It's impossible.
That's basically true although man gets glimpses of a perfect God through Divine Revelation.
Theme two: The fact that there are scads of imperfections in the Bible - including God's behavior - proves beyond a shadow that the Bible (and hence God) was invented by imperfect beings.
Not true and not a jump which is provable from the last sentence in Theme one:
The fact
What fact?
that there are scads of imperfections in the Bible - including God's behavior
Only if one misunderstands what The Bible is saying
- proves beyond a shadow that the Bible (and hence God) was invented by imperfect beings
How does this PROVE (beyond a shadow I guess of a doubt) that The Bible and God were INVENTED?
Are you open to the idea that you may not have a perfect understanding of the bible and your religion. Sure, you've got the basics, but do you completely interpret and translate it perfectly?
I think this justifies some independent inquiry on your part. I'm not asking you to doubt Christianity, to stop worshiping in God or trusting Jesus for your salvation.
But I am asking you to reconsider what is the proper way to interpret the bible.
Nobody thinks they are interpreting the Bible wrong way, but some people must be. Are you open to the idea that you may be wrong? Maybe the literal interpretation isn't the way it was meant to be read.
As an imperfect human, I can only think but not know I'm interpreting The Bible in the right way.
As an imperfect human, I can only think but not know I'm interpreting The Bible in the right way.
If you don't mind looking at this objectively, what is the evidence that the Bible is meant to be used like a science text book? Maybe it's the message that's important, and not the details. Because there's not really a good reason to think the bible is word-for-word scientifically or historically accurate, and there's not really a good reason to think it needs to be word-for-word scientifically accurate.
I think it's only fair to point out that I'm not a believer though, so my opinion may have little weight.
Only if one misunderstands what The Bible is saying
- proves beyond a shadow that the Bible (and hence God) was invented by imperfect beings
How does this PROVE (beyond a shadow I guess of a doubt) that The Bible and God were INVENTED?
If you think committing mass murder, genocide, and psychological warfare against humanity is a mark of "perfect" behavior, then okay.
But the God of the Old Testament is written as if he were merely a human with superpowers. There is nothing at all divine, perfect, loving, or just about that god. Nothing. At all. Period.
In fact, Yahweh was protrayed like any number of previous gods - complete with numerous human failings such as jealousy and wrathfulness, human personality traits, and a desire for material things such as burnt offerings and precious metals.
There is absolutely NOTHING about Yahweh that really distinguishes himself from any number of other tribal gods, because human beings really can't fathom a real god - at least not the kind of god the Biblical authors tried to portray.
This is why I see Man's fingerprints all over the Bible - if the Bible were truly inspired by the kind of god the Hebrews wanted, why is none of god's perfection displayed in the text? Instead, all we get is bluster, murder, demands, rules, threats, and death. Which is the same kind of behavior one would come to expect from a Man-made god.
Of course, the add-on to the Bible witten by the founders of Christ's messianic cult I think understood the mistakes made in the OT and tried to bring God down to earth in the form of Jesus - but that's another discussion.
If you don't mind looking at this objectively, what is the evidence that the Bible is meant to be used like a science text book? Maybe it's the message that's important, and not the details. Because there's not really a good reason to think the bible is word-for-word scientifically or historically accurate, and there's not really a good reason to think it needs to be word-for-word scientifically accurate.
I think it's only fair to point out that I'm not a believer though, so my opinion may have little weight.
I agree with you 100%, Box and I AM a believer . . . so perhaps my opinion has some weight.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Does that apply to fundamentalist scientists that are not willing to recognize truth when they see it?
Scientists follow the facts and report them.
Because they are facts, other scientists can replicate them.
There not much in the bible that can be replicated today.
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley
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