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Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk You got bible verses for Christians to burn people at the stake?
Well, you sure failed to answer that question.
Now, do you understand that Christians do not believe ourselves to be under the Law of Moses, right? For instance, the Law of Moses insists on abstinence from pork and no working on Saturdays--which most Christians don't bother obeying.
So you understand, don't you, that Christians aren't particularly dismayed by all your quoting of OT Mosaic Law.
And you still have to respond to my post #50, which is the answer to your post #59.
The Bible is responsible for sanctioning slavery in America. And for the abductions and selling of children into slavery in Nigeria. No matter how you spin it, the Bible sanctions slavery. Jesus never lifted a finger against slavery. Jesus acknowledged that if a slave doesn't do as his master wants, he is beaten badly.
The Bible is responsible for the witch hunts in Salem, and the murders of those that practiced other religions. Moses murdered any Jew who wished to worship God in any other way.
Are you saying that the Odininst who were burned at the stake for practicing Oninism had nothing to do with Christianity? The Bible is rife with genocides and murders of people based on their religions.
The Bible is responsible for sanctioning slavery in America. And for the abductions and selling of children into slavery in Nigeria. No matter how you spin it, the Bible sanctions slavery. Jesus never lifted a finger against slavery. Jesus acknowledged that if a slave doesn't do as his master wants, he is beaten badly.
The Bible is responsible for the witch hunts in Salem, and the murders of those that practiced other religions. Moses murdered any Jew who wished to worship God in any other way.
Are you saying that the Odininst who were burned at the stake for practicing Oninism had nothing to do with Christianity? The Bible is rife with genocides and murders of people based on their religions.
Why do people allow these to happen? Why do you allow these to happen?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
Actually, there was never a theological support given to slavery until American southern clerics attempted to create one in the early 1800s. Prior to that, slavery was tolerated as an evil, never given theological support.
Guess you haven't read Philemon. Martin Luther called it 'holy flattery' and you might want to read Diarmaid McCulloch's History of Christianity. He is a preeminent biblical scholar. Philemon supports slavery. Diarmaid MacCulloch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As Abraham Lincoln said:
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession." - Abraham Lincoln
Guess you haven't read Philemon. Martin Luther called it 'holy flattery' and you might want to read Diarmaid McCulloch's History of Christianity. He is a preeminent biblical scholar. Philemon supports slavery. Diarmaid MacCulloch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As Abraham Lincoln said:
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession." - Abraham Lincoln
The purpose of the letter to Philemon was to free Onesimus. I've already walked through the letter to Philemon in this thread. There are lovers of slavery--and Martin Luther's moral values are by no means clean--who want to interpret it differently, but if the only point was to encourage a practice that was already common, there was no point to the letter.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,938,587 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
The purpose of the letter to Philemon was to free Onesimus. I've already walked through the letter to Philemon in this thread. There are lovers of slavery--and Martin Luther's moral values are by no means clean--who want to interpret it differently, but if the only point was to encourage a practice that was already common, there was no point to the letter.
I'm going to suggest that Diarmaid McCulloch is significantly more qualified in dissecting what Philemon means then you may be.
His qualified viewpoint is that Philemon does not disavow the practice of slavery.
It is only by jumping through hoops that one can take a different point of view.
No, the purpose of the letter was to make sure that Onesimus was not punished as the law allowed and was welcome back as a brother in Christ. Nothing was directed as to his chattel status.
No, the purpose of the letter was to make sure that Onesimus was not punished as the law allowed and was welcome back as a brother in Christ. Nothing was directed as to his chattel status.
Such an expansive letter--as well as the final threat of a personal visit--would not have been needed if all the letter conveyed was "please treat Onesimus nicely." That could have been a mere end-address on the letter to the Colossians, similar to Paul's entry for Syntyche and Euodia to behave themselves in his letter to the Philippians.
Paul has already addressed anti-slavery morality within the Body of Christ in 1 Corinthians, and categorically condemned enslavement by any violent method in 1 Timothy.
In the letter to Philemon, Paul negates the only slavery allowable in the Body of Christ--debt bondage--by instructing Philemon to put Onesimus's debt on Paul's own "tab." Or do you think Paul was just kidding?
Paul makes zero mention of legal punishment of Onesimus, and in fact, his instructions to the Corinthians about handling legal matters within the Body of Christ would have prohibited it.
What part of "not as a slave" is hard to understand? Show me why do you think "not as a slave" means anything different from "not as a slave?"
With all due respect, that's just a bunch of spin hokum.
No the spin hokum is that just because there isn't a verse where Jesus outright condemns the practice then the assumption is Jesus was absolutely 100% pro-slavery.
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