Christians, Muslims, Orthodox Jews, other Theists: What is your definition of an atheist? (bible, worship)
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Someone who does not believe we have an intrinsic purpose for existing.
Do you believe that atheists still believe in God deep down but are simply choosing to deny him and "the Truth"? I think it more likely that the various irrational and anthropomorphic beliefs about God are intellectually unpalatable.
Do you believe that atheists simply hate God?
I think it more likely that they hate religions and their desires to impose upon individual freedoms.
Do you believe that atheists have their own religion, worshipping earthly things or people?
I think worship is too vague a concept. People venerate many things that do not involve belief in God.
Do you believe that it is possible for some people to not believe in anything and to view your God the same as the Loch Ness monster, unicorns, and magic?
As I said . . . it is more likely that all irrational and magical things are intellectually unpalatable.
I ask this question because I've heard some religious people in real life and on this forum say that they went through an atheist phase of many years when they apparently still "prayed to God". I'm not sure how one can consider themselves an atheist in any sense if they pray to God. You are equating actions with actual inner beliefs . . . a common mistake. I was raised Catholic and went through all the motions required to become confirmed . . . never believing a single thing about God or the religion. Eventually, I "came out" as an atheist and practiced Buddhism, meditation and martial arts as an atheist. After 18+ years of meditation . . . my atheism was erased completely in deep meditation. I spent the ensuing 40+ years explaining it to my intellect.
Anyone that tries to find logic in religion ends up an atheist.
However, if you take religion as cultural heritage then it is not a big deal. Very similar to "May the Force be with you!"
Many atheists have spent a lifetime searching when in reality there is no need to search. The existence or non-existence of God is moot. That is why the more matured atheist enjoy the Christmas Holidays so much.
Very good post, Julian. Religion is emotion-based, not reason or logic based.
Mystic, I almost agree with everything you posted...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Someone who does not believe we have an intrinsic purpose for existing.
I think that while a great many of us are materialists, naturalists, and /or relativists and don't see an intrinsic purpose or meaning, it is not something inherent in atheism. Just like there are atheists who believe in an objective morality, some atheists may believe in some intrinsic purpose. I do grant that it may not be that common, but I don't think it is entirely fair to put all atheists in that one box.
Other than that quibble, I think your take is a pretty good summary.
Someone who does not buy into the claim there is a god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario
Do you believe that atheists still believe in God deep down but are simply choosing to deny him and "the Truth"?
Nope. That entire idea is a nonsense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario
Do you believe that atheists simply hate God?
Nope. That entire idea is a nonsense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario
Do you believe that atheists have their own religion, worshipping earthly things or people?
Nope. That entire idea is a nonsense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario
Do you believe that it is possible for some people to not believe in anything and to view your God the same as the Loch Ness monster, unicorns, and magic?
Two different questions there. Is it possible to not believe in anything? At all? I fail to see how.
Is it possible to view the idea of "god" the same as the idea of Loch Ness and unicorns? Yes - because they are the exact same. Belief in something without any reason to believe it. There is no reason to think there is a Loch Ness. There is no reason to think there is a god. Where is the difference exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario
I'm not sure how one can consider themselves an atheist in any sense if they pray to God.
Well that depends what the intention of their prayer is and what the atheist believes they are actually doing. If they think there is an entity or create "up there" listening then you are right - I would not consider them atheist.
But the actual act of prayer - or appealing to the universe at large without any actual expectation of being heard of having an effect - just mumbling desires and wishes and prostrating oneself while doing so - can have meditative effects which are themselves beneficial - can help order ones thoughts - and can be calming.
The key difference as I say is whether the person engaged in "prayer" actually believes there is some entity listening to those prayers - an entity perhaps with the capability to interept and/or action them.
Some. Not all. This term "newbie atheists" is interesting. I think most atheists have gradually moved to that position after a long time of being expected to be religious. Not all, but I am one.
Since I was a teen I thought the idea of a god didn't make sense, yet I respected my Christian parents a lot (and I still do). It just didn't fit my way of thinking.
It rings true for me. I think it's a natural counter reaction for people who either came from a religious background or who live in religious cultures and so feel an understandable personal need to push back against something that is applying pressure. It is the zealotry of the converted. For those like myself who grew up atheist in a highly secular society, we have the luxury of a much more relaxed relationship to religion as cultural heritage since it's no longer a powerful enough personal force to constitute any kind of threat. I think that's what they were getting at.
Anyone that tries to find logic in religion ends up an atheist.
However, if you take religion as cultural heritage then it is not a big deal. Very similar to "May the Force be with you!"
Many atheists have spent a lifetime searching when in reality there is no need to search. The existence or non-existence of God is moot. That is why the more matured atheist enjoy the Christmas Holidays so much.
Definition of moot (adj)
moot[ moot ]
arguable: open to argument or dispute
not relevant:irrelevant or unimportant
not legally relevant:legally insignificant because of having already been decided or settled
synonyms:*debatable, arguable, doubtful, controversial, unresolved, disputable, unlikely, unsettled
Religion is emotion-based, not reason or logic based.
And where to you think Morals and Ethics came from? Religion may not be perfect but least it gives one a rule book as a foundation for one's life. No matter how much a person states they are an Atheist in one way or another their lives are affected by that rule book.
And where to you think Morals and Ethics came from? Religion may not be perfect but least it gives one a rule book as a foundation for one's life. No matter how much a person states they are an Atheist in one way or another their lives are affected by that rule book.
Well I agree and I disagree.
I disagree because the "newer" religions like Christianity and Islam are keen on stealing and hijacking ideas, principles, and morals that have been around thousands of years before there was ever a Bible or a Qu'ran.
I mean, how much does that rule book REALLY affect your life? Did you think it was okay to murder, steal, rape, cheat, lie, and beat people up before reading the Bible? If you knew these things were wrong before reading a holy book, then you know as well as I do that the book has nothing to do with it.
In fact, the book only muddies the water by adding stupidity like having to put tassles on your cloak, telling slaves to obey their masters, plucking out your eye to keep it from sinning, and the horrifying evils of being a transvestite. Gasp and stuff.
People don't seem to realize that holy books are absolutist which means every rule becomes a "zero-tolerance policy." Thus we are not permitted to take things on a case-by-case basis. Nope. That's a sin. Period. No exceptions. Nope, doesn't matter the circumstances. Uh uh, don't wanna hear it. Just admit you sinned ...
I do agree however, that our lives are affected by that rule book - because religious fascism is still alive and well. Censorship, bigotry, scapegoating, intolerance are things that affect me, and all too often, they are the result of that book. I have yet to meet even a single person who ever said, "Phew, it's a good thing we have the Bible, because without it, I would have murdered you for that pair of Air Jordans you have on. Wow, yeah, if I hadn't read the Ten Commandments, I would have bashed your head in with this tire iron and taken your shoes, but because we have our trusty rule book, I knew killing is wromg ..."
If you are a Christian, is your failure to believe in Islam a system of belief?
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