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You didn't answer the other part of the questions.
If you believe in psychic communication, why rush to a communication from a god?
One that should, as has been mentioned, have better things to do. Or do you think your situation was more deserving of his attention?
I did answer the question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
I believe in psychics. I have concrete proof they exist!
However, the ones that are not fakes contact the spirit world. Spirits, ghosts and what have you. These entities are not God
You seem to not be happy with my answer. I don't use psychics. I thought it an odd question. I think I am done with this thread.
Hey Mr5150,
First, I want you to know that I also like a pie. A lot. In fact, I just had a slice of delicious peanut butter pie.
Second, I'm also happy for you have had an experience that you chalk up to the supernatural and are able to attribute it to God, in this case, Jesus I assume since you are a Christian.
I understand how you feel it was a sign from God. However, there is still reason to not take your subjective experience and apply it to objective truth.
I believe a few details are lacking in your story. Dreams typically are a result of past experiences. It is of no shock that your dream takes part at work. It's a big part of your life. it's also typical for dreams to involve hypothetical situations, in this case the change in title.
While it's quite the coincidence the conversation happened verbatim, I have no way of knowing if he truly did say exactly what your dream told you he would. Also, we often can't remember the exact details of our dreams so I would be skeptical you actually remember exactly what dream Kent said.
You probably were aware there was some shuffling going around and that new positions were opening up. You may have been one of a few that they talked to, also. It just so happened that you got the job.
There's definitely room for skepticism, especially since there is no empirical evidence presented, just subjective experiences.
Still, it's great that you ended up in a better position and that you feel that this one prayer in particular was answered.
In my sermon this past week I referenced the book by Ray Comfort that was titled "You can Lead an Atheist to Eveidence, but You Can't Make him Think". The idea is not that atheists are stupid. The idea is that we can "prove" the existence of God to you all we want...but if you're unwilling to see it......there's just not much we can do.
Yes--I believe God exists. I see him working in my life. Does that mean you'll be convinced? Not necessarily. I'm ok with that, though. Convincing you of his existence doesn't mean he doesn't exist or not exist.
Pastor Vizio, what about Muslims who claim their lives were "changed and transformed" by Allah and the holy Muslim book the Quran? Are you going to say that Allah is not working in them because you are Christian? A Jewish person could tell me the same thing, that every since they became a Jew, but yet still don't accept Jesus as Savior, their life has improved too. Do you see where this is leading? If I pray to the Roman God Zeus and notice that my life improves in many ways shortly afterward, am I to rightfully conclude Zeus exists?
Yes you are correct. Could have picked any God really. Still I want Pastor Vizio to explain those whose lives have been changed from other belief systems if that is going to the one of the "selling" points of becoming a Christian. I say selling points because that's how I perceive it. I went to a non denominational Christian church service with a friend several years ago, and the pastor asked the non Christians at the service to accept Jesus into their hearts and see the changes that take place in their lives after 60 days. I don't know if this goes on in other Christian churches to "win" souls for Christ or not. I wonder what happen when some come back to the pastor after 60 days and say they didn't see transformation? The response I'm sure would be.."'well God is not quite ready to make a transformation in your life now" or "maybe you didn't pray right or sin is in your life."
Yes you are correct. Could have picked any God really. Still I want Pastor Vizio to explain those whose lives have been changed from other belief systems if that is going to the one of the "selling" points of becoming a Christian. I say selling points because that's how I perceive it. I went to a non denominational Christian church service with a friend several years ago, and the pastor asked the non Christians at the service to accept Jesus into their hearts and see the changes that take place in their lives after 60 days. I don't know if this goes on in other Christian churches to "win" souls for Christ or not. I wonder what happen when some come back to the pastor after 60 days and say they didn't see transformation? The response I'm sure would be.."'well God is not quite ready to make a transformation in your life now" or "maybe you didn't pray right or sin is in your life."
Now see, first your facts are wrong. Then you engage in conjecture. You are really not doing a very good job. One visit to a church several years ago then making a bunch of unfounded assumptions. And there is the issue of the Roman god Zeus. My suggestion is to go to bed. But first have a glass or two wine and forget about this thread. You are an incredible poster.
If you are only trying to prove something to yourself then the greatest confirmation bias surely comes from within. If you want to relabel your confirmation bias "proof" then so be it but you are just talking nonsense then.
The "you just know it is real" mantra is likely also used by people who have heard voices telling them to murder their family too.
In my sermon this past week I referenced the book by Ray Comfort that was titled "You can Lead an Atheist to Eveidence, but You Can't Make him Think". The idea is not that atheists are stupid. The idea is that we can "prove" the existence of God to you all we want...but if you're unwilling to see it......there's just not much we can do.
Yes--I believe God exists. I see him working in my life. Does that mean you'll be convinced? Not necessarily. I'm ok with that, though. Convincing you of his existence doesn't mean he doesn't exist or not exist.
Please, your excuse could be applied to any belief, even the religions that are your competitors. You're just not "thinking" yourself into belief in them enough.
See whatever you want to see, but I'll care and intervene at every point where what you think you are "seeing" starts causing you to infringe upon me and mine.
I am a firm believer that people only belief what suits them, if their unfounded believes didn't promise easy immortality and rewards they would jettison them as their pagan ancestors did with their harsher religions.
Please, your excuse could be applied to any belief, even the religions that are your competitors. You're just not "thinking" yourself into belief in them enough.
See whatever you want to see, but I'll care and intervene at every point where what you think you are "seeing" starts causing you to infringe upon me and mine.
I am a firm believer that people only belief what suits them, if their unfounded believes didn't promise easy immortality and rewards they would jettison them as their pagan ancestors did with their harsher religions.
And atheists are just as unyielding from their belief that there is no life after death. Thinking involves actually considering evidence instead of coming up with broad stroke explanations to shut it down immediately.
But, I can say that its hearsay anecdotal evidence. Instead of sending your pastor X amount of dollars, why would he not send X amount of food to these children? I doubt that your pastor had any more dire need than these children.
That's the problem. You demand the impossible. You want to force a supernatural experience into a test tube that can be repeated at demand. Otherwise, it's just hearsey. That's an easy way to get out of having to ever consider that maybe God is real. Or in this case, you deflect by presenting another unrelated example like African children. If it was a story of miracle healing, the response would be Yea well, why doesn't God heal amputees, huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn
Your story about conviction by the Holy Spirit is nothing new to me nor many other atheists on this forum. Many of us experienced the same "moving of the Holy Spirit" that you claim to have experienced and seen. Now, though, we realize that this "movement" is the same experience that billions of other people from thousands of different religions experience every day, even those of Jim Jones and David Karesh's clans. How can you say that their's are not genuine, which I expect you believe, and your's is?
That is a tricky one because there is an evil force out there who deceives many by creating such false religions or fake spiritual experiences. But I have no doubt that if you compared the other religions side by side and compared evidences, Christianity would have the most evidences.
At any rate, your argument doesn't weigh in favor of atheism. If multiple religions are having the same spiritual encounters, that still proves that there is a supernatural realm, and if that exists then there is life after death.
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