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History demonstrates that Jesus never wielded a sword against anyone ... There is not a single verse in the New Testament that calls the Church to commit violence to spread the gospel or to plant churches or to accomplish anything else. Rather, the New Testament hands the sword over to the State (Rom. 13:1-6). In any case, Jesus says a spiritual sword, not a physical one, may sever family ties, so his disciples must be ready for that.
Of course these unambiguous statements of Jesus in Matthew can be spiritualized, interpreted metaphorically, or limited applicability argued for.
I will grant you that the New Testament lacks the Quran's specific incitements to violence and mayhem against infidels (that's all in the OT), but that was not really my point. The poster I was responding to was arguing for Meek and Mild Jesus, and suggesting that this version of Jesus would bring peace, joy and tranquility to the world. I was merely reminding him of Angry Jesus and Cult Leader Jesus -- the versions of Jesus that scourge people with whips when he's P.O.'d, and that separate young people from their families as a condition of membership in the group and a token of dedication to it.
There are a number of versions of Jesus, and not every one is convenient for every -- ahem -- context.
Would someone please explain to Perry the difference between speaking the truth and being defensive? I stand by my posts and you most certainly do seem to delight in your belief that anyone that doesn't believe like you do is doomed. You said so yourself when you said this:
"Death is like a thief in the night"......it sounded like you were wishing I would die just so I would suffer. You really are living with your head up your - well you know. You'll be surprised (actually you won't know so it doesn't matter) that when we die there is nothing other than being dead. No going to be with your god or resurrection....that's just an insane thing to believe. But hey, I'm one to live and let live and your beliefs don't bother me, it's your attitude and judgmental demeanor. Par for the christian course.
Double defensive!! Someone needs to take a bible course, it shows
Why don't people want to follow a man who had a peaceful message?
Because we can think for ourselves. We don't like to follow people.
Think about it. You must have some friends who you admire in some ways. You may choose to learn from their example, but you probably don't follow them around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacationmacation
Does it mean not all people want and like peace?
Yep. Most of us like peace on our terms but not on your terms.
After the Japanese attacked us a Pearl Harbor, we could have had peace on their terms if we had chosen not to fight back. However, we chose to fight a war with them, which cost us thousands of American lives. That's how we do things.
You are making a number of illogical connections and false equivalencies, but I'll focus on this one.
Per Jesus: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law-- and a man's enemies will be the members of his household." (Matt. 10:34-36).
Jesus, who, remember, overturned the money changer's tables and whipped them, was not all about peace an love. Certainly, many things done in his name by the church (Inquisition, Crusades, etc) were not peaceful and loving.
In the US, southern slave owners used the Bible to justify slavery. And it was easy, because the Bible tells you how to treat your slaves, thus assuming you will have slaves and tacitly endorsing human bondage.
So the notion that Christianity and the message of Jesus is all about peace, joy, love, and kum-by-ah, is entirely unjustified.
Mordant where in the bible does he say he whipped them, He did turn over tables for making a mockery of the temple for profit-making.
Also Jesus was talking to His disciples and telling them what to expect while going door-to door. He was alluding to the fact that there would be friction or division between the families that believed and didn't believe. One has to put on a shield of armor when going out to proclaim God as one is persecuted for their endeavors. This wasn't about sharing warm fuzzies to the world, this was about getting everyone on the same page that a Savior was here and it wasn't going to be an easy task, as some believed in the Messiah others did not.
The slavery issue in biblical times was about a way for a family to sell someone off to owners so they would not starve to death and done in an appropriate way much different than the southern slave owners.
Christianity is the world's largest and most widespread religion in the world, and is growing rapidly in many developing parts of the world, while some parts of the devoloped world people are more secularized and religion is in decline.
We all know (both Christians and non-Christians) that Jesus is one of the (if not the most) influential person who has ever walked on earth that spread the universal message of love, peace and forgiveness. Sure, it's difficult to live like that and many people, including Christians, do not follow his teachings and messages 100% unfortunately because it is quite impossible in many ways. Thankfully Jesus often forgives people if you truly believe in Him. Indeed, he saved a women from being stoned to death for breaking Hebrew laws, and the thief next to Him during his crucifixion the very last minute when the thief asked for forgiveness of his sins. Even just by reading the sermon on the mount, I believe a good person who believes and wants peace should convert and follow Christ individually.
Forget about organized religion; why aren't more people becoming Christians (whether 100% practicing or not) especially if you live in a country where there is no persecution, intolerance or any other circumstances that prevents a person from converting if possible?
Why don't people want to follow a man who had a peaceful message? Does it mean not all people want and like peace? Perhaps that's why there is war, murdering, greed, racism, etc. taking place in many parts of the world today.
It's a loaded question that you are asking. I will however give you my answer.
I don't believe Christianity as represented initially by the Catholic Church and then by the Protestants and other branch-offs represent anything remotely similar to what Jesus taught. I therefore follow Jesus's core teachings but am not a member of a particular Church. For that matter, I believe some of what Jesus supposedly taught isn't even real; for instance I don't believe he really ever said that you need to be a Christian to go to heaven... I think it is much more likely he said follow my path to get to heaven (that is the path of Love, being loving, being forgiving, acting and thinking in love). He was basically a Rabbi turned hippie and I respect those things... he was well educated (as was Siddhartha) and then with meditation and reflection came to what we now recognize as universal truths regarding Love and he taught them to others. There's nothing mystical about any of that but the wisdom shared is profound and important whether or not he was an actual supernatural being.
Converting to anything from anything else just seems like a load of nonsense to me... after too many years listening to people who profess themselves to be "converts" but seeing ignorance in how they behave and think, I don't see how that can fit anyone's rational paradigm of the future. Intolerance has no place in the future of humanity, neither does greed nor unquestionably doing things just because you were born into a cult that did them etc, nor does worshipping an imaginary or perhaps real self-professed God that acts like a confidence lacking child with limited powers and a bad temper. The truth is that most people are born with a great sense of right and wrong and those of us with that sense do not need to be converted nor recruited into an ancient cult to be good people.
Actually this is not true. Christianity is growing rapidly in large parts of the world, including in Africa and East Asia. Practicing Christians are in slight decline in parts of the western world; although most are still Christians.
There are nearly 2.2 billion Christians around the world, making up about one-third of the world's population - the same percentage as a century ago, according to the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.
I would dare say that the view there sticks a fork in the "slight decline" theory. It's in rapid decline in the Western world and rapid growth in the Developing world. In 50-70 years they will experience the same decline that we are now.
Why not? The most Christ-like person I know is a Pagan.
TxtQueen is pagan?
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