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This touches on a point that is (to me) one of the most insurmountable of the many inherent contradictions in Christianity - why is there even a conflict between god and satan? How could there be? If god is omnipotent, how and why is satan even allowed to exist? All it should take is a single snap of the almighty fingers, and "Poof!" No more satan. He's gone. So why hasn't god gotten around to that yet?
That is a good post and makes the point that puzzles me about the role of Satan. At least as popularly conceived. Allank's response is also good. However, it just throws up more problems. Satan is like part of the divine justice administration and is doing a job that God needs him for. If Stan had never existed, it would have been necessary to invent him or, to put it another way, God needed Satan to rebel in order to provide staff for the shiny new furnaces that He had planned before he even spoke the first Word.
It was a stitch -up, just as Adam and the Apple was a stitch -up. If God didn't know this was all going to happen and had planned it right from the start, it can only mean that He is NOT all -knowing and in fact is working in the dark and merely cobbling together attempted makeshift solutions to a Plan that has gone badly wrong. In fact the factory recall of the Flood should be primary evidence that He is not in control.
That aside, if Satan is working for god as overseer of Perdition, then He should be better than human bosses in that he should not take pleasure in makng life as miserable for his minions as possible. The Lord would surely provide Satan with comfy free accommodation, paid holiday and health plan rather than torment him and the other fallen angels so they will pass their agony onto the tormented souls.
Or, if that is the way it is, such a bastard does not deserve our worship and, applying any human -devised moral code I can think of, other than cynical big boss dictatorship - such a creature cannot be by any stretch of the imagination called 'Good'.
Because that's exactly what they thought they would accomplish. Overthrowing God was the plan and Lucifer told them they would get all of his power and make their own Heaven and become Gods. They had no idea they would be punished because 1, the concept of punishment and evil didn't exist and 2, they were FULLY CONVINCED they would get away with it. God let Satan run around Heaven for a LONG TIME to all those beings until one day Satan tried to step inside of God (like he usually did) and with one bolt of lightening sent him and the fallen ones down to Hell. Satan and those fallen angels are burning and suffering the same way others in Hell are but they have the ability to torture those who end up there because they have dominion in that wicked place. Just as God as dominion in his kingdom, Satan has dominion in his own. Humanity suffers there because through their own volition, they sent themselves directly into the enemy's camp. This is exactly why the word exist and why Jesus came to save us.
Dante Alighieri cemented and popularized the idea of a specific, large-scale, "burning" hell (with different levels, actually) in the 14th century with his poem Divine Comedy, which included Inferno, Purgatorio and Paradiso. We still imagine that very complex, involved and specific "hell" today, but there really isn't much Biblically that supports it.
Per me si va ne la città dolente,
per me si va ne l'etterno dolore,
per me si va tra la perduta gente.
Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore:
fecemi la divina podestate,
la somma sapienza e 'l primo amore.
Dinanzi a me non fuor cose create
se non etterne, e io etterno duro. Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate
Pre P.s
"English is the only language to be used this board, use translation software if needed." (Tos)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleynj
Per me si va ne la città dolente,
per me si va ne l'etterno dolore,
per me si va tra la perduta gente.
Giustizia mosse il mio alto fattore:
fecemi la divina podestate,
la somma sapienza e 'l primo amore.
Dinanzi a me non fuor cose create
se non etterne, e io etterno duro. Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'entrate
"Through me you go to the grief wracked city; Through me you go to everlasting pain; Through me you go a pass among lost souls. Justice inspired my exalted Creator: I am a creature of the Holiest Power, of Wisdom in the Highest and of Primal Love. Nothing till I was made was made, only eternal beings. And I endure eternally. Abandon all hope — Ye Who Enter Here" Dante - Inferno canto III
The whole devil living in a fiery inferno idea was a Medieval invention and specifically a Christian one. There is nothing in the OT to point to such a belief. The references to "burning" in the Bible are to a specific, earthly place where bodies where thrown (somebody correct me...I know I'm oversimplifying here).
Dante Alighieri cemented and popularized the idea of a specific, large-scale, "burning" hell (with different levels, actually) in the 14th century with his poem Divine Comedy, which included Inferno, Purgatorio and Paradiso. We still imagine that very complex, involved and specific "hell" today, but there really isn't much Biblically that supports it.
I personally feel your questions are good ones and just a few of many that refute the idea of "the devil" as we think of it today. For example, it would certainly know it was doomed to fail in a war with God and that God would ultimately destroy it, and being self-serving, would be more likely to give in and ask forgiveness than try to wage "a war" on man and God. Your question as to why the devil would make its own home horrific and unlivable (so to speak) is a good one. A being that wanted to be "king" of all would be far more likely to have some ostentatious palace.
The first mention of fire as a punishment after death is in the Gospel of Mark. Matthew goes postal on the idea of punishment by fire in the afterlife. These are to follow the universal resurrection at the end of days. Luke is the first one to have punishment by fire happen immediately after death. This is the popular view of hell today.
Dante 'Inferno,' despite the name, actually has very little 'hellfire' in it. Rather there are all sorts of punishments related to the specific sins. The bottommost level is the worst place of punishment where Satan himself is imprisoned. It is a frozen wasteland. That's right, hell froze over.
BTW If anyone wants to read The Divine Comedy in English I recommend Ciardi.
I don't think we can apply human standards to Satan. Being spiritual is different. Satan zooms around the universe frustrated after being expelled from heaven. Like the other angels, Satan was created for eternity with God. I believe his suffering comes from being excluded from heaven where he caused havoc in his (its) lofty ambition to be God. Instead of being in bright holy heaven with God and the other angels, he's in a dark soap of matter and energy with exploding stars and swirling galaxies. Unlike heaven where everything is forever, the universe, according to laws of entropy, will self-destruct and Satan will be gone.
Satan has made many attempts to escape the universe to return to heaven. It is interesting, scientists have discovered big black scars on the boundary of the universe. Some scientists claim they are caused by other universes bumping into our universe. However, there is no evidence for other universes. Scientists call them "Axis of Evil." I believe they're from Satan's escape attempts. Satan wants to go back to heaven on an attack and destroy mission. My theory is Satan directs galaxies to surge out from the universe to penetrate the boundary. Recently, science has discovered a flow of galaxies going faster than the expansion rate of the universe heading for a particular point on the boundary. Maybe, this is another attempt by Satan to break out. In the meantime, Satan continues to cause trouble on earth.
As for the other fallen angels, I don't believe they exist. There is only Satan (Lucifer) and twelve angels in heaven with God.
The whole devil living in a fiery inferno idea was a Medieval invention and specifically a Christian one.
This is incorrect. The scriptures of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all have
strong references to fire, brimstone, eternal punishment, hell, and all these
things. Seriously. have a nice day !
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