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As an atheist, I have a code of ethics...morals, if you prefer.
Somehow, they don't change nor do I forget them. I might get a prick of conscience if or when I do or am tempted to violate my own standards but can quickly yank myself back on track or apologize if that behavior was injurious to someone else.
It struck me today, reading about Ash Wednesday that religious people with all their rites and rituals and church going seem to have some need to be constantly reminded to do right instead of wrong or to remind or reassure or demonstrate to themselves (or is it to others?) of the fact that they are believers with a path to follow.
Is all that belief such a shaky thing that once accepted needs constant tending?
Although I am not an atheist, both of us are considered sinners. Not because we have an innate, and balanced sense of right and wrong, but we do not believe in the my way or the highway form of religion and punishment.
Religion says we sin and need punishment. I do not allow myself to be punished.
Children lie because they fear punishment. Eliminate the punishment, and they will stop lying, because they have nothing to fear.
I think that the human condition is such that anyone, regardless of their (a)theistic (non)persuasions, has some tendency to find some maladaptive behaviors and habits more obviously rewarding than what one intellectually "knows" to be beneficial overall.
For example, I have a mild (so far) case of type 2 diabetes and know three things. (1) Sugar is bad for me, (2) sugar makes most of the food I enjoy taste much better and (3) at my age, food is pretty much the last reliable source of pleasure in my life. This is a rather unfortunate combination which forces me to choose between certain short term enjoyment which may or may not lead to long term suffering, vs certain short term feelings of deprivation which may or may not lead to less overall suffering between now and the totally unknown day that I will leave this mortal coil (what a bummer if I die next Tuesday, way before my long term plan of drinking unsugared coffee pays off!)
It's this way with "sin". There is not an actual ironclad relationship or payoff between depriving myself of "sin" vs not, but religion wants to turn that into a certainty. But this requires constant hectoring which in and of itself is a form of suffering. Also, legalistic definitions of "correct" behavior tend to divorce actions from outcomes in one's mind, even more than they actually are. It makes one into a person who does prescribed correct things out of a need for approval and/or a fear of punishment, instead of one who mindfully does things because one actually believes it is the best course.
This is probably what the OP is describing. If you do things because you want to, that is far more intuitive than doing things because you have to. Even there, though, there will be some things where the payoff is very uncertain and the way you should behave quite unintuitive, hence you may need to be "reminded".
As an atheist, I have a code of ethics...morals, if you prefer.
Somehow, they don't change nor do I forget them. I might get a prick of conscience if or when I do or am tempted to violate my own standards but can quickly yank myself back on track or apologize if that behavior was injurious to someone else.
It struck me today, reading about Ash Wednesday that religious people with all their rites and rituals and church going seem to have some need to be constantly reminded to do right instead of wrong or to remind or reassure or demonstrate to themselves (or is it to others?) of the fact that they are believers with a path to follow.
Is all that belief such a shaky thing that once accepted needs constant tending?
Nonsense. We have a conscience just like you.
Rather, our rites, rituals, church going, Bible study, prayer etc. is for the purposes of being reminded what God has done for us, to commune with God, and to help us grow spiritually.
Rather, our rites, rituals, church going, Bible study, prayer etc. is for the purposes of being reminded what God has done for us, to commune with God, and to help us grow spiritually.
I don't know... that seems to contradict what you said in the Christianity forum, about how Christians need help sometimes to stay on the right path. Don't you think so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Some things are difficult to overcome. Why is asking for help a problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Does an alchoholic seek help? How about a chronic smoker? Those people are trying, but need help. Not sure why you see that as a problem. Doesn't mean the person isn't trying-they just need help.
So you don't need reminding, but you do need help sticking to the path. What am I missing here?
I don't know... that seems to contradict what you said in the Christianity forum, about how Christians need help sometimes to stay on the right path. Don't you think so?
So you don't need reminding, but you do need help sticking to the path. What am I missing here?
There's a difference between knowing right from wrong and asking God for help overcoming a problem. Almost everyone has a working conscience, but everyone has weaknesses, even atheists.
There's a difference between knowing right from wrong and asking God for help overcoming a problem. Almost everyone has a working conscience, but everyone has weaknesses, even atheists.
My conscience stays working without daily, weekly reminders or group sessions.
Do you 'guys' have a problem with your consciences staying active?
My conscience stays working without daily, weekly reminders or group sessions.
Do you 'guys' have a problem with your consciences staying active?
No. Do you ever have difficulties, and seek help?
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