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I see your point Warden, but I would pose that most of us just a vehemently disagree with you as we disagree with Jeffbase. Liberal Christianity is just as unproven and unsubstantiated as fundamentalism, but probably more dangerous. A wolf in sheep's clothing, if you would. According to your definition of "godly", we can live our lives just as lovingly, meaningful and just as fulfilled as you or any other Christian who feels they need a God to be good.
A good point. I suppose it is that fundamentalism is harder for non- fundamentalists to live with, the 'liberals' are more open to reason and argument, and they recognize that some things that are in the Bible do not stack up.
I don't think that we should be too worried about the idea that liberal Christianity might be stealth -fighters for Jesus. Arguments easy to demolish and ones that are better -adjusted and thus harder to argue against are taken on their merits. Whatever the truth turns out to be, we should bnot be afraid of it.
I don't think so. If that were true, then Jesus would have resorted to "self-defense." Instead He showed us that there is NEVER any justification for violence.
And THAT is very hard for every person on the earth.
The Amish probably follow the bible better than anyone. They are known not to defend themselves.
So once could deduce that if you're on a computer, you probably suck at being a christian no matter how much you copy/paste quotes from the bible.
I see your point Warden, but I would pose that most of us just a vehemently disagree with you as we disagree with Jeffbase. Liberal Christianity is just as unproven and unsubstantiated as fundamentalism, but probably more dangerous. A wolf in sheep's clothing, if you would. According to your definition of "godly", we can live our lives just as lovingly, meaningful and just as fulfilled as you or any other Christian who feels they need a God to be good.
And when you do lead such lives, you don't need anyone telling you that you are headed to hell do you? If you see me as an enemy then attack my viewpoints. I have no need of defending my faith from those who have not found it, nor with berating them for not reaching that point. My battle is with those claiming religion "inerrantly" but practicing it in any way but.
I can see how you might consider my views more dangerous if you are frightened by all religion. A non-aggressive faith may appear more attractive to some, and if your avowed purpose is to "win" people over to an atheistic stance, the same purpose of fundamentalists in the other direction I might add, then I suppose my approach is "dangerous."
I have never attempted to "prove" my faith. I came by it in a fashion I can't explain--and then fell into the fundamentalist mire for a number of years. I'm now unchurched but still believe the Bible has value as a flawed witness to God. Like the fundamentalist you deal only in certainties. Certainty is the one thing a person of faith never really finds---because if they did, it wouldn't be called faith.
And when you do lead such lives, you don't need anyone telling you that you are headed to hell do you? If you see me as an enemy then attack my viewpoints. I have no need of defending my faith from those who have not found it, nor with berating them for not reaching that point. My battle is with those claiming religion "inerrantly" but practicing it in any way but.
I can see how you might consider my views more dangerous if you are frightened by all religion. A non-aggressive faith may appear more attractive to some, and if your avowed purpose is to "win" people over to an atheistic stance, the same purpose of fundamentalists in the other direction I might add, then I suppose my approach is "dangerous."
I have never attempted to "prove" my faith. I came by it in a fashion I can't explain--and then fell into the fundamentalist mire for a number of years. I'm now unchurched but still believe the Bible has value as a flawed witness to God. Like the fundamentalist you deal only in certainties. Certainty is the one thing a person of faith never really finds---because if they did, it wouldn't be called faith.
I don't deal in certainty, that's where your comparison fails. I deal in probabilities instead of what I hope will be the case or what I was raised to believe in.
I suppose my interest in you is that I recognize an intelligent person who has the capacity for logic and reason, except in this aspect of your life. Using logic, I'm perplexed as to how someone can give credence to a known flawed text.
I don't deal in certainty, that's where your comparison fails. I deal in probabilities instead of what I hope will be the case or what I was raised to believe in.
I suppose my interest in you is that I recognize an intelligent person who has the capacity for logic and reason, except in this aspect of your life. Using logic, I'm perplexed as to how someone can give credence to a known flawed text.
President Barack Obama said “The ultimate irony of faith is that it necessarily admits doubt. This doubt should not push away our faith. But it should humble us.â€
President Barack Obama said “The ultimate irony of faith is that it necessarily admits doubt. This doubt should not push away our faith. But it should humble us.”
Which is interesting given that more than a few people have surmised that Obama is a closet atheist who occasionally mentions God and faith to keep the fundamentalists happy.
Obama is the first president that I remember who made no effort to blather on about God every time he gave a speech. He's even taken heat by the usual moronic suspects for not mentioning God during a Thanksgiving speech.
At the very least, he is the first president that I remember who spoke to ALL of us and not just directly to Christians. Most presidents had a nasty way of inadvertently (or deliberately) alienating anyone who wasn't a dyed-in-the-wool baptist-ish Christian.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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One problem hurting Christianity is how in the USA it's become interwoven with far right politics and no longer resembles the faith of the 1st century. First century Christians were known for non violent pacifism, helping the poor, and living modest lives. Today's Christians in the USA are known for packing guns everywhere, looking for an excuse to shoot someone; deriding and mocking poor people, gluttony and obesity, and living in extreme wealth while refusing to share with poor people.
One problem hurting Christianity is how in the USA it's become interwoven with far right politics and no longer resembles the faith of the 1st century. First century Christians were known for non violent pacifism, helping the poor, and living modest lives. Today's Christians in the USA are known for packing guns everywhere, looking for an excuse to shoot someone; deriding and mocking poor people, gluttony and obesity, and living in extreme wealth while refusing to share with poor people.
And then they set up missions overseas and preach their Christianity mixed with capitalism and wrapped into the stars and stripes to other people. The results can sometimes be... what I once was before I saw the light - a Southern-style evangelistic fundy who was not even American
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiegendesLicht
And then they set up missions overseas and preach their Christianity mixed with capitalism and wrapped into the stars and stripes to other people. The results can sometimes be... what I once was before I saw the light - a Southern-style evangelistic fundy who was not even American
Which is interesting given that more than a few people have surmised that Obama is a closet atheist who occasionally mentions God and faith to keep the fundamentalists happy.
Obama is the first president that I remember who made no effort to blather on about God every time he gave a speech. He's even taken heat by the usual moronic suspects for not mentioning God during a Thanksgiving speech.
At the very least, he is the first president that I remember who spoke to ALL of us and not just directly to Christians. Most presidents had a nasty way of inadvertently (or deliberately) alienating anyone who wasn't a dyed-in-the-wool baptist-ish Christian.
I just read an article the other day (which I cannot recall right now) that a minister wrote a letter in 1830 lamenting that none of the first four presidents were even nominally Christian.
I put more credence on living like a Christian than on claiming to be a Christian. In other than his compulsion for military violence I think our current President displays quite a bit of Christianity in how he manages the nation.
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