Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Seems like more people are leaving their faith now that the internet is a part of our lives (More commonly, the previously faithful are afraid to step out of their religious community, so they stay involved in it while remaining privately skeptical). With instant and unlimited access to information, people can see the vast amount of disconfirming evidence for their religion. Churches can no longer suppress information or execute people who disagree with them. Consequently, the internet is making church leaders and followers very insecure. They'll preach against the internet by saying that it contains many "evil temptations" like pornography (By the way, Christians are the biggest consumers of hardcore porn). Really, I think they're more afraid of losing in the belief market now that their kids can be exposed to opposing viewpoints.
I believe the net is the beginning of the end of religious fundamentalism, but not religion per se. Liberal, non-judgmental denominations will still have their adherents. But the non-think that characterizes fundamentalists will disappear.
The bellowing you hear from them now - raging impotently about things like gay rights - is akin to that of woolly mammoths mired in tar sands.
They're going down (and unlike the mammoths) I won't mourn their disappearance.
The Internet delivers information, and while it is not 100% vetted, curated, and accurate, it is still far easier and cheaper to fact-check and research than it ever was before. This can never be good news for those who advise against trusting in "your own understanding", as if that were somehow ignoble and misleading and inferior to "just believe what I say".
As TroutDude pointed out, it's arguably less a problem for more liberal Christians and less stridently dogmatic religions like Buddhism, but I have to believe that it ultimately poses real challenges for the acceptance of anything for which there is not empirical evidence.
no, because the internet is not just one sided. you can get just as much positive things from the net as negative things. you can read about religion, read the bible, listen to live church services, gospel music, christain chat, spiritual advice , locations and phone numbers for any church ect. you make your own choices on what to search for on the net. If the internet was 100% about all things bad then you can say that. believe it or not, not everyone out there have access to the internet but yet these people make bad choices. It may not be helping but I don't believe its the final nail.
Perhaps one of the most profound changes the internet brings is giving atheists a true voice. Now we can go to places like this one - or even Christian sites - and give voice to our side of the argument. Yeah, I know some Christians complain that we're "too mean," but what do you expect when atheists have been forced into silence for hundreds of years. I think that our points, our arguments, and our logic IS working, and each of us with every post chips away at fundamentalism just a little bit more.
I know a lot of fundies try to keep their kids away from the internet, and while they'll make up excuses about internet predators or the internet becoming addicting, we know the REAL reason is because their kids will be exposed to alternative ideas - ideas like ours. Ideas that say no, you don't HAVE to believe in God, and if you do, you don't HAVE to believe in the lunatic fringe garbage to maintain your faith. After all, if God really didn't make humans out of a pile of dirt and a rib, would that truly destroy a person's faith?
It is true that the internet cuts both ways; it can be used to spread religion. But doing so online is often ineffective because it lacks the charisma, melodrama, and theatrics of a preacher. Reading what someone wrote about the Bible isn't the same as seeing some sweaty preacher with a southern accident prancing around, waving a Bible, and using deliberately emotive voice inflection. Meanwhile, you're standing there amid a throng of other people so that the mob mentality takes hold and things seem more "real" when it is a shared experience. Religion, like music, has become as much about the visuals, the theatrics, the stage as it does the actual message.
Atheism is much more effective online because it is often cerebral and logical - two attributes that work really well with text.
Sure, there are YouTube videos, but the atheists win there hands down. We are FAR more effective in designing and showing a video than the religious, who often simply film themselves giving a sermon. So while religion wins on stage, atheism wins on the net - and the net is where it's at, these days.
12-22-2013, 12:48 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Perhaps one of the most profound changes the internet brings is giving atheists a true voice. Now we can go to places like this one - or even Christian sites - and give voice to our side of the argument. Yeah, I know some Christians complain that we're "too mean," but what do you expect when atheists have been forced into silence for hundreds of years. I think that our points, our arguments, and our logic IS working, and each of us with every post chips away at fundamentalism just a little bit more.
I know a lot of fundies try to keep their kids away from the internet, and while they'll make up excuses about internet predators or the internet becoming addicting, we know the REAL reason is because their kids will be exposed to alternative ideas - ideas like ours. Ideas that say no, you don't HAVE to believe in God, and if you do, you don't HAVE to believe in the lunatic fringe garbage to maintain your faith. After all, if God really didn't make humans out of a pile of dirt and a rib, would that truly destroy a person's faith?
It is true that the internet cuts both ways; it can be used to spread religion. But doing so online is often ineffective because it lacks the charisma, melodrama, and theatrics of a preacher. Reading what someone wrote about the Bible isn't the same as seeing some sweaty preacher with a southern accident prancing around, waving a Bible, and using deliberately emotive voice inflection. Meanwhile, you're standing there amid a throng of other people so that the mob mentality takes hold and things seem more "real" when it is a shared experience. Religion, like music, has become as much about the visuals, the theatrics, the stage as it does the actual message.
Atheism is much more effective online because it is often cerebral and logical - two attributes that work really well with text.
Sure, there are YouTube videos, but the atheists win there hands down. We are FAR more effective in designing and showing a video than the religious, who often simply film themselves giving a sermon. So while religion wins on stage, atheism wins on the net - and the net is where it's at, these days.
It definitely cuts both ways - but our sword is sharper. We just have better and more reasonable answers and ideas. People see that and start to question and doubt - something the fundies are so afraid to encounter.
It is admittedly a fact that True Believers (tm) can contribute to their own self-reinforcing echo chamber using the Internet (just check out any apologist or ID site), but consider the case of the closet skeptic who goes along to get along or who is just raised in the church. In days of yore, before dirt was invented (1993 or so in terms of the Internet) you'd have to overcome the inertia of social pressure, skulk off to a distant lending library where there was no chance of someone discovering your forbidden investigations, and get ahold of books to surreptitiously read. Now you just Google for stuff and get 87 points of view and historical context in a matter of moments. How can this NOT be a net win for reason? Those who wish to avoid reason will do it just as they always have; meanwhile freedom of thinking and investigation is extended to all.
The only way the internet will kill religion is if the Spiritual is not real.
Reason is fine. But reality is not changed by reason. And reason does not equal an open mind. God is easy to shut out. I have seen all to often the mindset that says "God does not exist, because it is what I chose to believe". If one does not want to believe in God, they never will experience God.
So many threads including this on is based on a premise: God does not exist. When I found God I really had no opinion or preference. I suppose one could call my POV at that time as having a mind open to whatever.
Sorry to disappoint, but the internet goes both ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Atheism is much more effective online because it is often cerebral and logical - two attributes that work really well with text.
.
But who lives in the online world? Some yes, and I feel sorry for them. Given the choice of virtual relationships and virtual reality, I'll take the real thing-the real world as it were.
Looking at picture of a forest on a 23" monitor is not the same, not even close, to being in an actual forest. Perhaps the virtual crowd will embrace atheism, because God is not virtual. Makes sense to me. However, reality is not found on the internet. It is all manipulated and staged according to whomever is posting or blogging. A vast sea of opinions when it comes to the matters of what to believe. Ah! If it is on the internet it must be true!
The only way the internet will kill religion is if the Spiritual is not real.
That is bad news for the Spiritual.
Quote:
Reason is fine. But reality is not changed by reason. And reason does not equal an open mind.
Our understanding of perceived reality should be based on reason. When you watch a stage magician aren't you relying on reason to know that you are seeing illusions, not actual suspensions of natural law? How is reason the enemy of open mindedness? Are we supposed to be open to any sort of foolishness and dispense with filtering the possible from the nonsense because open mindedness is so virtuous that no extreme is exempted?
Quote:
God is easy to shut out.
If you do not believe something is there, you are not shutting it out. Are you shutting out dragons and unicorns?
Quote:
Looking at picture of a forest on a 23" monitor is not the same, not even close, to being in an actual forest. Perhaps the virtual crowd will embrace atheism, because God is not virtual.
This appears to have spilled from the same pool which brings us wisdom pellets like "There is no "I" in team" as though we should base our decisions on coincidences of spelling.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
