Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Getting back to the subject, the passage in question in the book of Matthew is really no surprise. One of the better known "prophecies" he uses to prove the divinity of Jesus is found early in his book. This "inspired" writer claims that the Old Testament prophet, Micah, predicted (in Micah 5) that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem. To quote my West Indian grandmother, "not a ting nuh go so" (nothing at all happened like that). This proves that the writer was not above bending and embellishing to suit his purpose.
Micah lived in the days of king Hezekiah of Judah, 700 years BEFORE the time of Jesus. The Assyrians were bearing down on Jersusalem after already destroying the northern kingdom of Israel. Micah, in his role as prophet and morale booster, jumped up and predicted that a ruler (leader) would spring from the CLAN of Bethlehem-Ephratath (yes folks, Bethlehem and Ephratath were actual people who lent their name to the the ton of Bethlehem) and deliver Israel. Apparently Matthew figured he had an ignorant audience and claimed that this was an Old Testament prophecy predicting Jesus because Jesus too was born in Bethlehem (though some believe it was actually Nazareth, but we have to keep the story straight). Now, if we just read a little further down in the same chapter, we find out that the prophecy could NOT be about Jesus because of this:
And this One shall be peace. When the Assyrian comes into our land,
And when he treads in our palaces,
Then we will raise against him
Seven shepherds and eight princely men.
They shall waste with the sword the land of Assyria,
And the land of Nimrod at its entrances;
Thus He shall deliver us from the Assyrian,
When he comes into our land
And when he treads within our borders.
- Micah 5:5-7
By the time of Jesus, the Assyrians had ceased being a people 700 years earlier. This "peace," this "ruler" could not be Jesus, but that did not stop Matthew from claiming it was.
May I kindly see these please because those I have seen have been rather weak ESPECIALLY the one that some hold up as THE greatest support.
Thanks.
I'm not going to spend 30 minutes digging it up for you you are going to have to find it on your own. If you really care about this you will. No offense, and no it's not a blow off.
I'm not going to spend 30 minutes digging it up for you you are going to have to find it on your own. If you really care about this you will. No offense, and no it's not a blow off.
You can start with the works of Josephus.
lol...you sound angry.
Josephus is who I was referring to. It can clearly be proven his "testimony" was nothing more than an interpolation. What is also interesting is that the version apologists use came down to us from the care of Christians. This was a clear case of the fox guarding the hen house, so to speak. The person responsible for it was none other than known and admitted forger as well as propaganda minister for emperor Constantine, Eusebius, Bishop of Ceaserea.
I'm not going to spend 30 minutes digging it up for you you are going to have to find it on your own. If you really care about this you will. No offense, and no it's not a blow off.
Prohecies of the Old Testament fulfilled in Jesus Christ (http://biblia.com/jesusbible/prophecies.htm - broken link)
lol you know it funny people sue the same arugment pretty much all the time christians twist the gospel or old testasment.
had you gone to any scholar of hebrew or greek they agree it pretty much the same.
Talk about taking the bible out of context.
300 Prophecies----you have to check out the chicken that fits 42 of the prophecies
Just a side note HistoryasIs if you believe that jews really believe what this webpage:Jewish beliefs is saying you are being lied too. If you do not believe it good for you.
People have to remember if you believe in Jesus that would mean he is the JEWISH MESSIAH. So why is there christianity?
Josephus is who I was referring to. It can clearly be proven his "testimony" was nothing more than an interpolation. What is also interesting is that the version apologists use came down to us from the care of Christians. This was a clear case of the fox guarding the hen house, so to speak. The person responsible for it was none other than known and admitted forger as well as propaganda minister for emperor Constantine, Eusebius, Bishop of Ceaserea.
I have written about this many times Josephus is supposedly a eyewitness to Jesus trial but he was born about 34ad which is about the time of Jesus death.
Most scholars believe the gospel of q was written around 50-60ad which is believed to be lose but Matthew, Luke and Mark copied. Matthew was written in about 75-85 ad, Mark was 70-75 ad, Luke was 85-95 and john was about 95 to 100 ad. Gnostic Thomas was 60-92 ad Mary and Judas was 3 to 5th century. They all were written in Greek. Matthew was believed to be the closes to Judaism. Paul wrote most of what Christians believe in today around 40 to 57 ad. The final bible we hold in are hands was determine by a pagan worshiper in 300ad. So at any time the story could have been changed or re-written.
You might wish to look a little further than "wikipedia" for your spiritual guidance and "final word". Just a thought.
Rest assured, I have been looking into these sorts of questions for quite some time now. That is why the moment I saw your post I knew it was the commonly seen "Lord, Liar, or Lunatic" argument. It is no more convincing than most of the others like Pascals Wager or the Ontological argument.
I use wikipedia because it is a great source for general information on just about anything. It tends to be rather neutral as well. If you look something up on it, you get a nice summary not only of what you are looking up, but also information on any controversies involved.
I have never seen someone post the "Lord, Liar, or Lunatic" argument and then supplement it with something like:
"It should be noted that some believe this is a false trilemma and they have ventured forth the following alternative explanations..."
Not all...I've been reading and researching things for 18 years. I'm not going to spend 30 minutes finding a facts I heard/read 5 years ago (And verified the validity then) just to post and authors name or whatever it to a person who has no interest in the truth - Your only purpose here is to try and drive Christians from their faith. It's obvious. Why would I "entertain" you then?
If you want to know, you'll look. It's that simple.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
