Why do people consider the Biblical God above criticism? (believe, verse, Creator)
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To criticize one must be equal to or greater than, you are neither.
I think what you mean is it is hard to crticize a Being that sees things from
a much broader view...!...
As in, a place where there is no time, no space..so no past, no future...sees the Whole Picture.
We couldn't possibly understand from our limited, finite perspective.
It's like a child criticizing a parent for not allowing him to run in traffic....
"Waaagh....but I want to get my ball!!!"
I think what you mean is it is hard to crticize a Being that sees things from
a much broader view...!...
As in, a place where there is no time, no space..so no past, no future...sees the Whole Picture.
We couldn't possibly understand from our limited, finite perspective.
It's like a child criticizing a parent for not allowing him to run in traffic....
"Waaagh....but I want to get my ball!!!"
I tend to think this is just an extension of might makes right style morality. Just because a being knows more then you, has a broader perspective, does not mean that that being is morally right or that it has your best interests at heart.
To use your example:
It's like a child criticizing a parent for not allowing him to run in traffic....
"Waaagh....but I want to get my ball!!!"
But we would never argue that the child is wrong in this case:
"Waaagh....but I don't want to take my clothes off and touch Uncle Ned there!!!"
Even though the child has been instructed by an adult who is clearly more knowledgable, and has a much broader view... We would never say that the child is just being self-centered and doesn't understand the big picture.
So why would we uncritically and reflexively justify God in that way? Why should we jusdge God in any other way than we do any other moral actor? If anything God should be held to a higher standard, not excused.
I don't get it. Especially after reading the Old Testament.
Actually, there is no better proof that the biblical God deserves critical scrutiny than the New Testament. The Old Testament didn't have an amendment clause akin to that of the US Constitution. The New Testament, itself, therefore ratified the imposition of amendment by the amendment itself. Effectively, the New Testament made criticism of the biblical God, and unilateral revisionism itself, the way of Western religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arleigh
To criticize one must be equal to or greater than, you are neither.
That logic would negate the New Testament.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
There is a clear progression of perceptions about God in the Bible, so any single perception is going to be debatable in any one context.
And the progression of perceptions itself, even within each testament, is evidence of the legitimacy of the criticism and revisionism, and by extension, relativism as well.
I don't get it. Especially after reading the Old Testament.
Because he's God and we aren't.
Rom 9:18-21 "So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?†20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?†21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? "
No God is above criticism. I do not expect God to grow and mature unless I engaged God. I do not worship, bow, and scrape to a small, needy, petulant, angry, God. I have gratitude. I have wonder of the Universe and its energy.
Neither do I. But then maybe it says more about the person if they think of the creator of the universe in such a manner.
Fundamentalist ideologues, in the name of God blame SSM on disasters. They are fear-mongers for God.
It does say something about them. They blame God rather than taking responsibility for what they are willing to do to their brothers, and sisters in the community.
Rom 9:18-21 "So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? "
Wow, talk about the biggest non-answer of all time.
Essentially, the Bible here is simply telling people with brains to "shut up, sit down, and accept as true everything we say. Do not question it. Do not criticize it. Do not analyze it. Do not critically think about it. Do not verify it. Do not corroborate it. Just believe it ... and not only will you believe it, you will like it, too."
They say that Joseph Goebbels was a master of propaganda, but every propagandist in the world can take lessons from the Bible.
Don't question what God does, how he does it, or why he did it that way. NO! Just shut up and accept it because God is SO much bigger, smarter, stronger, faster ... we have the technology ... oh wait, that's the Six Million Dollar Man.
This is precisely the reason why believers are so often pegged as less intelligent than atheists. They're too accepting of ridiculous things as long as they fall under the heading of "religious" and they refuse to analyze the garbage they are fed.
Here's an example: One reason why I know we were not "created" by an intelligent, loving, caring, God is because of turds. Yeah, that's right. Turds.
What kind of sick and twisted entity would design the human body to produce and eject these little toxic time bombs that have killed more people than all of our wars combined? For 99% of human history we have had to exist in our own filth having no knowledge of bacteria or the harm turds do when they lay around in close proximity to our food and water supplies, how raw sewage flowing through the streets of our cities just wasn't a good idea. God never instructed us about that except to, hey, wash our hands and bury our poop ... which is all well and good in the desert but it's kinda hard to bury it in the city unless you own a jackhammer. Stupid.
And yet when a believer thinks about these things -- assuming he thinks about them at all -- the answer is always, "Oh, that's just how God wanted it and who are we, with our puny little pea brains, to question God?" Once again, we are told to shut up and sit down, stop thinking about stuff like that and instead think about how God gave his only begotten son ... and all the rest of that claptrap.
God has so many superlatives; he's omni-this and omni-that including omni-benevolent thus God should be held to the very highest of standards. This is perhaps the main reason why I do not believe in the Biblical God -- because not only does God fail those standards in every way possible, he did things that would have made Hitler and Himmler blanch.
I would have expected an entity much more nobler, more regal, a being that would be far and away above things like foreskins, baptisms, tassels on our cloaks, or how we wear our hair. I would have expected a being that wasn't vain and egotistical, a being who demands not just worship but also love. No, I would have expected a being that simply wanted us to be happy, to live good lives, and to treat each other with respect and kindness. I would have expected a being who would have wanted humanity to learn about our planet and our universe -- a universe he ostensibly created -- without primitive superstitions and absurd stories getting in the way. I would have expected a God who would have wanted an unlimited future for his creation, not a sourpuss who built a destruct mechanism into the human race so that we would have an End Times and a closing scene for humanity that cannot be avoided no matter what.
Instead, we just get the same old megalomaniac God that puts worship of himself above all other things, a vain and egotistical God that only lets believers into his paradise ... regardless of how they lived their lives on earth. It's the same old angry, crotchety, perpetually ticked off God that seems to delight in sending horrific mass punishments our way but withholds rewards so that we never see mass miracles.
In short, God is the same kind of god people have been worshiping and then discarding throughout the last 100,000 years. There's nothing special about him ... and certainly nothing noble, regal, or GOOD about him. The enormous amount of cognitive dissonance needed to "believe with all my heart, to love God and to put God first" is just too unfathomable ... and THAT is far too much for my puny pea brain to understand.
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