Honor The Sabbath (and keep it holy) (protestant, quote, divorce)

[Shirina]

I can't work so every day is a day off for me. Oddly enough, this makes getting things done extremely difficult because you always know you have time. Of course, the times I'm laid up with pain aren't exactly days off ... they're like work days since they keep me from doing anything at all, sometimes for days or weeks at a time.

And since I live in a tiny town filled mostly with retirees and ultra-conservative Christian bumpkins who spend most of their time cleaning their guns and getting their big ol' pick-ups to make as much noise as humanly possible, there's not much for me here in the way of a social life.

So I spend my time on my non-pain days in my computer gaming fantasy land. Just yesterday I discovered a Class M red dwarf star in a wide orbit around a larger G class star while running illegal battle weapons between two different star systems (the weapons were to help fuel civil unrest on a planet in the Procyon system). Good thing I didn't get scanned by station security while docking at Sylvester City or I would've had a bounty on my head. Phew!

As for the Sabbath, well ... the only thing I'll say about that is that I do believe we all need at least one day off from work and it would be nice for everyone to have the same day off, too, so people can actually get together, families can plan events, etc. etc. It doesn't have to be for religious reasons and there doesn't have to be all kinds of screwy rules about what constitutes "work." I remember the story about how some pot on a stove caught fire and killed 9 people including children all because orthodox Judaism said that pushing a button or turning a dial is considered "work." Dumb. We don't need any of that.

Just a general day off that people can enjoy in whatever fashion they please. Hopefully you'll get both Saturday and Sunday off, but these days, who knows. Employers want people to work all the time -- and then people are mystified why kids are growing up feral with little regard or respect for anyone but themselves.

[eddie gein]

Besides the fact that Jews, and Sabbath keepers use a different day for Sabbath than other Christians, we must also consider that whatever day God "rested" probably got off track somewhere along the way.

[Rotagivan]

I think the whole concept - if not designed for the purpose - likely gives the impression that it is only important to think about 'G()D' one day in seven and then by making that one day 'special' it serves as an illusion that one day is more special than all the others...'to hear the softly spoken magic spell'

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Rotagivan

I wonder, would it matter what kind of a job you did which provided income which then provided one with lifestyle?

The way I figure it, it is money which provides these things, not G()D, so indirectly one who believes that G()D provides them a 'living' is saying that G()D does so indirectly through money, so money is G()Ds gift so to speak.

And then the ritual of taking the day off from making money so that you remind yourself that it is not the money but G()D who provides you with your lifestyle...

Agreed.

Why not simply remember G()D every day all the time? Perhaps that is what what meant by the sabbath being made for man.?

Of course we should remember God every day and try to keep His commandments every day. But the thing about the Sabbath is that God specifically made a distinction between it and the six other days. I don't think He's particularly concerned whether we keep a Saturday or a Sunday Sabbath (obviously some people will disagree with me on that), but does want us to set aside one day a week as a "holy" day. It should be a day focused on things that are not mundane and worldly, but instead on things that will lift us up and bring us closer to him.

[nateswift]

Originally Posted by Rotagivan

I think the whole concept - if not designed for the purpose - likely gives the impression that it is only important to think about 'G()D' one day in seven and then by making that one day 'special' it serves as an illusion that one day is more special than all the others...'to hear the softly spoken magic spell'

This is why Hebrews gives another "day of rest:" "Today."


Hebrews 4

[openmike]

It's an individual walk adhering to the God map or rules of the road. We ate Christians with a medium level of Hebrew . We have migrated to combining christian principles and messianic fellowship. My wife and I find Shabbat Sabbath in honesty a hassle at times., but adhere to a day of rest. (Literally) All chores are put on hold as we either read , play guitar , write, pray and just chill. Shabbat is Saturday but we respect anyday for religious folks who mostly use Sunday as sabbath . God is almost over the edge crazy about sabbath and demands we rest period . The church doesn't want to ruffle feathers so it says little about it as an ingredient of "happy happy church" . Keep in mind Pope Sylvester mandated the change of the week days so sabbath gets tweeked to Sunday. Constantine mandated his Sun Day or worship of the sun god be careful how you pick and choose ( don't be a sucka brotha of anotha)!

[bulmabriefs144]

Originally Posted by TheDusty

You have a very interesting and thought based view on this. I respect that.

I'm no longer religious, but I do respect the concept of 'Sabbath.' A day of rest seems like a good idea. I don't truly think it matter which day specifically, and according some theologians Jesus doesn't care which day either. But taking a break from hard work during the week is a good for a person and spending time doing the things that bring them relaxing joy should be pursued. If that's worship, or prayer, or meditation, great. Or hunting, fishing, gaming, watching movies, reading. Anything that brings relaxation.

Given the historical context, work was quite different back in the day than it is now. But even now, in our rampant consumeristic culture, plenty of people are over worked. People seem to be afraid to truly take a day off. They feel if they aren't being productive, they are wasting time.


By the way, Chi Rho is an early Christian symbol. P and X are the first letters in the Greek word for Chirst.

I knew Chi Ro, but I hadn't a clear concept of why it related to Christ.

If someone wants to regard what they consider the Sabbath to be holy that is up to them, however it should never be imposed on non believers!

By the way, "holy" has a different meaning than we typically think when we think about worship. You see, when a house is sanctified or made holy. What we are typically saying is that it is numinous or transcendant, basically that it is "separate" from the rest of the days. If you want to spend it watching porn, this is just as holy to my understanding as anything else. Take a day off!

it's also sort of like if a couple wants their marriage to be strong and vibrant, and not lost in the mundane humdrum myriad details of daily life, they have a required date once a week for 24 hours to focus with joy and happiness only on each other, how much they love each other, how dear they are to one another, sing love songs to each other, talk about what they love about each other, how they met, why they got together, all the treasured moments and memories of shared family, shared history. For Jews on Shabbat, joy and celebration are required.

Sort of like? Or exactly like? We humans are the Church. We are married to God. This is our date night. Time to connect with ourselves and others. And to get it onnnn!

Originally Posted by Rotagivan

I didn't know you were religious bulmabriefs...

I wonder, would it matter what kind of a job you did which provided income which then provided one with lifestyle?

The way I figure it, it is money which provides these things, not G()D, so indirectly one who believes that G()D provides them a 'living' is saying that G()D does so indirectly through money, so money is G()Ds gift so to speak.

I'm spiritual. Not religious. I don't really study the Bible. I learned it in the past, and sort of connect with stuff emotionally. It's kinda... like how I know how to fix computer software issues just by sitting in front of one, while I can't explain it at all because it's sorta like the computer just tells me what's wrong.

That bunch of paragraphs? I did zero Bible reference. I know some of it from historical study, some from past Bible study, and some I just sorta know.

My religion is a mix of Christianity, Taoism, Shintoism, etc. I believe in boundaries and personal freedoms first, not set commandments, and I kinda flip-flop some of my religious stances, because I'm more a religious scholar than a priest. My dad's a priest, I'm not ordained. Though I did do a pagan-ecumenical wedding for a friend (didn't last). Religious faith is a mix of logic and emotion, because I believe if both your feart and mind can't work together to prove something, you are probably insane. I'd like to be slightly less insane about religious belief than "Jesus take the wheel."

Money doesn't provide these things. Trust me, personal experience.

I lived in Richmond for two years. The first year, I paid for my apartment with straight up income and still lived on foodstamps. I worked like a dog at Amazon, only to reach the point where it was quit or be fired (glad to leave this one). Then I managed to be hired at Walmart, which I almost wish I'd stayed, because it was a mostly normal job, and I haven't had a real one since. It also didn't pay near enough, and my car crapped out suddenly making me very miserable because I was working closer to 30 hours average weekly and seemed to be making that much after taxes EVERY TWO WEEKS. I realized that I could work my entire life in these jobs, and never afford even my crummy $350ish apartment let alone a house (and since my roommates created messes for me to clean, and I was given crap if I didn't, yea). So I pretty much burnt out. Months of work, and it wasn't the 6 months that even looks good on a resume. I had no staying power.

I spent the time out of work getting help from the food bank and my parents. Pretty much felt miserable, but I realized my needs were being taken care of by those who loved me. I got increasing grief from the apartment, meanwhile, while they were supposedly selling the place and the roommates were supposedly moving out (I actually never got any peace in that regard, roommates ended up staying extra days and were still there by the time I left, but I honestly didn't care). I moved back with my folks. I work for my room and board keeping the lawn cleaned, and I work for food bank as a volunteer monthly. I could say that I've paid back (some) for taking rent from them for that godawful apartment, and I'm paying back for the But yes, I very much know that my help came from God. My own work has pretty much just made me run like a gerbil on a wheel, making money only to have to spend it immediately on gas, food, and apartment (or bum from others). Living this way feels more healthy (except my mom is emotionally kinda unstable and sometimes cuts me down).

Overtime leads to declining health, more strain on one's body. It also means less time to rest and recuperate, and less time to enjoy the apartment that you're paying an arm and a leg for. It's just a place. All the fancy utilities don't add up when all you need is a place to rest your head, and a fridge for your food. The more time away from your apartment, the less it's worth. I wouldn't advocate living with your parents, but I would advocate finding a job that doesn't have a high overtime ethic, because you don't need the extra. You need time off, and to save the gas money on commute.

A living is also not a life. I work five or six days weekly, mowing lawn, gardening for extra income, helping at the library (voluntary, free, but I hope I'm working towards something more permanent), and make about $50-80 weekly which I usually spend commuting once weekly to Richmond for electrolysis (I'm trans, and want to clean my face a bit). I make less than most people, but some of this is room and board (I worked a deal where I could pay insurance or do mowing at an estimated 5 hr weekly free instead), and I'm doing what I like. Is life perfect, no, and I accept that. But I believe for me, God has shown me how to work, how to dream, and how to appreciate what I have.

I probably misunderstood you. But money isn't a sign of God's favor (pffft, 700 club) it's being able to live in your means I guess (still struggling there, because I don't budget well).

Actually, whoever wrote Genesis didn't realize he'd run out of things to be created by the 6th day so had to fill the 7th in with something.
Erasing an editing wasn't easy in those days ya' know.

Here's the thing. In one paragraph, I mentioned how Genesis was an allegory? One of the things they brought up besides non-24 7 days for creation, was that all other units of time divided into representative measures. One day, is a rotation of the Earth, one year is the amount of time for a full circling of the Earth. But a week? It doesn't represent anything, yet pretty much all cultures have a 7-day week.

As for the Sabbath, well ... the only thing I'll say about that is that I do believe we all need at least one day off from work and it would be nice for everyone to have the same day off, too, so people can actually get together, families can plan events, etc. etc. It doesn't have to be for religious reasons and there doesn't have to be all kinds of screwy rules about what constitutes "work." I remember the story about how some pot on a stove caught fire and killed 9 people including children all because orthodox Judaism said that pushing a button or turning a dial is considered "work." Dumb. We don't need any of that.

Shirina, the problem with the same day is that you are likely to want or need something, like a new lightbulb or some food. It is realistic to expect that a decent workplace will give days off (not work 7 days a week at PT shifts, that's crap), but rotate it so people with different needs can figure stuff out. This allows you to go to the store on your offday and have it open. The way this is likely to change is with self service shopping (at BofA, you can swipe your card, if offdays you could self checkout, but were held responsible for thefts by your ID and better barcode system, we could have the store technically closed while still allowing shopping. The issue with this is that I'd hate to see people fired over it, just a more humane working environment.

Also, that totally sucks. Hopefully, you'll be able to get better.

I think the whole concept - if not designed for the purpose - likely gives the impression that it is only important to think about 'G()D' one day in seven and then by making that one day 'special' it serves as an illusion that one day is more special than all the others...'to hear the softly spoken magic spell'

It's ideal to live your life for God. This is a start, having time to rest, and think about what's important.

We ate Christians with a medium level of Hebrew

Why spellcheck is not enough. Christians are yummy btw.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by Rotagivan

The way I figure it, it is money which provides these things, not G()D, so indirectly one who believes that G()D provides them a 'living' is saying that G()D does so indirectly through money, so money is G()Ds gift so to speak.

Yeah, this is the kind of thinking that allows Christians to treat the poor like crap -- and A LOT of them do, which is why this country, despite being Christian, has one of the worst safety nets in the industrialized world. Believe me, I know ... because I'm disabled and I became disabled before I ever really had the chance to have a career and make decent money. Because of that, I will receive the MINIMUM that the Disability program pays out which is actually equivalent to the minimum wage in the 90's. Yeah, that means I'll be doomed to a life of abject poverty thanks to no fault of my own.

God's gift, you say? Well, based on that, people like me and everyone else who can't seem to make ends meet are being snubbed by God. Ergo, we must be sinners to the nth degree and deserving of scorn. More importantly, we must be deserving of our financial fate and it would be wrong for Christians, via the government, to help those stricken by poverty. After all, those people aren't receiving the "gift" of money for a reason, right? And no good Christian would want to interfere with God's will.

Originally Posted by Rotagivan

And then the ritual of taking the day off from making money so that you remind yourself that it is not the money but G()D who provides you with your lifestyle...

No, Rotagivan, God doesn't do diddly. YOU provide yourself with the lifestyle you lead ... by working hard, educating yourself, and developing a set of skills. YOU do ALL of the work and take ALL of the risks. God just sits there and takes the credit (which is absurd). It's not as if God leaves a suitcase of money on your doorstep every week and says, "Enjoy! Here's my gift!" Nope, you have to work, work, work and without that paycheck well, gee, you might just end up like me once my mother dies. Impoverished.

There have been several discussions on this particular topic and even some Christians agree: When you give God the credit for financial success, it's also saying that the poor are being punished by God and somehow are deserving of their destitution.

After all, can you even begin to explain why you would be more deserving of money than anyone else? Are you less of a sinner? Does God give you money simply because he thinks you're a "swell guy" but the destitute family down the street annoys him because they like the Cleveland Browns? Perhaps you just have better prayer skills than the next guy.

And here's the biggie. Just WHY is it then that some of the cruelest, most heartless and least Christ-like people have so much of the money? Some 17% of them are considered sociopaths, for crying out loud, and wouldn't feel guilty if they punched a 95 year-old war veteran in the face just to take his ink pen. These kinds of people do not strike me as deserving of massive amounts of "god's gift" and yet they're the ones flying around on their own personal jet, not the pious, devout believers in that small-town church. I think we can almost all agree that the extremely wealthy almost certainly had to use cruelty, dishonesty, deception, and/or immorality at some point along their rise to riches so why would they be deserving of LOTS of gifts from God while good, decent, and honest people rot at the bottom?

No, Rotagivan, money is just money. You work for it. Some lie for it. Some cheat for it. Some steal for it. But to say it is a gift from God opens up a lot of implications that shouldn't exist.

Originally Posted by Rotagivan

Why not simply remember G()D every day all the time? Perhaps that is what what meant by the sabbath being made for man.?

I dunnae, because there's more to life than a needy god, perhaps?

[VanHalen5150]

Tldr...

[Miss Hepburn]

In my mind I still think of the Sabbath as ''the day of the Lord."
(Meaning inner respect and thought given to Him.)