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Look there is no one in this entire thread who has an in depth knowledge of genetics and I doubt has ever sat in a college genetics class or much less holds a physical science degree. I do and have though.
So instead of saying nothing why not give me an example of what exactly I am ignoring here?
What I have seen over and over in this thread are statements by people who just don't understand anything about genetics or the properties of biological molecules.
I can't teach you in a forum all the science I learned in undergrad and then grad school. Go to college and study science if you are having difficulty understanding the very basics of it.
I think he means these questions. You've answered the first one quite adequately. How does one answer the following two?
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa
you know that beyond a reasonable doubt?
And what's unnatural about intelligence?
If it exists then it must be natural. What else would it be?
In all honesty, I don't see the link between intelligence being natural and intelligent being behind evolution. Unless it's something one might find in a laboratory, in which case that intelligence would be human.
I enjoy a good head-butting contest as much as any buck. But when the antlers are locked the outcome sucks for both. Death by starvation or waiting for wolves to disembowel you is no darn fun.
You both have much to offer CD. And your dispute - on the cosmic scale of things - is microscopic in the extreme.
I enjoy a good head-butting contest as much as any buck. But when the antlers are locked the outcome sucks for both. Death by starvation or waiting for wolves to disembowel you is no darn fun.
You both have much to offer CD. And your dispute - on the cosmic scale of things - is microscopic in the extreme.
Let it go. You have way more in common than not.
I don't have anything at all in common with that ****, I reject and resent any comparison between the two of us, and as far as I'm concerned he has absolutely nothing to offer to CD, the internet, or the human race for that matter.
Religion and Philosophy is, and always has been, a forum for pissing matches, has it not? Is this one any different than 1000 others, other than the fact that I'm enjoying it much more than most? I appreciate that you're trying to do a good thing here, but I'm not in the market.
I don't have anything at all in common with that ****, I reject and resent any comparison between the two of us, and as far as I'm concerned he has absolutely nothing to offer to CD, the internet, or the human race for that matter.
Religion and Philosophy is, and always has been, a forum for pissing matches, has it not? Is this one any different than 1000 others, other than the fact that I'm enjoying it much more than most? I appreciate that you're trying to do a good thing here, but I'm not in the market.
It is fun to read...but it isn't really that much of a contest. Ur beating him up pretty bad from what I can see Al.
But, that's just me.
Please don't stop. MOF...crank it up some!!
Trout, I owe you a better answer than that, and I want to amplify on it.
You and I and a lot of other people go at the fundamentalists and the religious crowd pretty regularly, and sometimes it gets rough. And yeah, I'll admit that sometimes we get nasty. Maybe I need to be rethinking that, but that's not the point at the moment. The point is, no matter how rough we all get, one thing that is very important to me is that I go at it with a sense of fair play and integrity, a sincere and intellectually honest debate. A debate where sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and when you lose you man the hell up and admit it, and congratulate the other guy for making a good point - not pretend he never said it, or try to mischaracterize what he said so you don't have to admit they had a good point. That's important to me, and it's important to all of us on our side of the debate - and I'm going to tell you why.
Very often, when we slug it out with the fundamentalists, they become nasty and abusive, and resort to shameful debate tactics like lying, denying they said what they said, accusing us of saying things we didn't say, changing the subject to avoid taking responsibility for what they said, making up our own facts, misrepresenting their positions, and just general cowardice, intellectual dishonesty, and total lack of integrity. In short, everything this character is doing on a regular basis in half the threads on this forum. And every time they say that about us, we say, "oh, no, not us! we don't do that!"
But as long as this guy is posting on our side of the debate, we can't say that anymore - because with this guy weighing in on our side, we do do that. And I'm not going to shut up and let it go just because we're supposedly on the same "side." This isn't some after school fistfight between two rival schools; I'm not here to be on some "side." I'm here to represent what I believe in, fight against what I don't believe in, and then when I log off, to be able to go look in the mirror. The way this guy conducts himself here has nothing to do with what I believe in and come here for, and everything to do with what I come here to fight against. And I don't give a rat's ass what team we're both supposed to be on. Whatever team he's on, I don't want anything to do with, and no, I will not back off and cut him any slack just because our views are similar. The similarities stop there, and I won't pretend otherwise.
And quite frankly, the fact that so many other people here who I'm used to seeing on my side of the debate are encouraging him in all of these threads and turning a blind eye to the way he conducts himself on the entire forum is very disappointing - and giving me an entirely different perspective on, and newfound respect for, the fundamentalists. From now on, whenever they ***** about how we're no different or no better than they are, I'm going to figure they've got a point. And I feel a significant shift in how I want to be posting here, and what I want to be saying. I really did think that "we" were better than that, and now I'm increasingly aware that I was being naïve - because "we" most certainly are not.
I suspect he is referring to something similar to your pseudoID. There is no reason why ID should be visible or detectable at our level of existence or observation. The very existence of constant code elements and unchanging processes instead of chaotic ones is itself indication of the possibility of such an overarching ID at some level of existence well beyond the one we exist in. After all, how would our individual brain cells at their level of existence know what marvels we accomplish using their functioning at our level of existence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora
So instead of saying nothing why not give me an example of what exactly I am ignoring here?
About genetic and evolution, you are ignoring nothing. But philosophically, you are ignoring a great deal. I offer the above suggestion and analogy as an indication of how ID could exist but NOT be detectable at our level of existence.
About genetic and evolution, you are ignoring nothing. But philosophically, you are ignoring a great deal. I offer the above suggestion and analogy as an indication of how ID could exist but NOT be detectable at our level of existence.
No my friend. I swear I wish I had a chalk board and was standing up front teaching the basic principles of Chemistry.
I could show you how molecules are charged.
This basic principle will enable you to know exactly exactly what type of bonding atoms can undergo.
There is no intelligence behind Electromagnetism. It might appear seemingly magical but certainly no purposeful intelligence is behind it.
The guy who thinks that the fact that DNA uses a fixed set of base pairs points toward a universal dark matter powered disembodied consciousness who sent Jesus to us.
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