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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,937,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me
God granted such power to early Christians ensuring the establishment of Christianity. This is evident in the accounts recorded in Acts 3:2-9 and 20: 9-11. However once the Christian congregations were firmly established it was no longer necessary to provide the type of miracles that you are referring to. Additionally, the apostle Paul explained it via an illustration found in 1 Corinthians 13:11. It's no coincidence that the Bible describes our relationship with God as that between a son (daughter) and Father. As humans mature our relationship and interaction with our parents evolves. So to as we mature spiritually our relationship with our Creator evolves. Paul even wrote that supernatural abilities would be done away with (see 1 Corinthians 13:8).
One should not forget that miracles do not affect people in the same way. There were plenty of miracles performed by God in freeing Abraham's offspring from Egyptian bondage and on the way to the promised land yet many would rebel and turn away from serving him. Jesus performed miracles, raising the dead, restoring sight to the blind, healing every sort of infirmity, but that didn't stop people from executing him.
Christians today have the Bible in its entirety to learn from. The actions and words of Jesus and the apostles are recorded for our benefit and to build our faith. The early Christians endured and Christianity spread without having grandiose churches, or idols to worship, or elaborate rituals. Christians who want to follow Jesus do the same today...keep it simple and worship with spirit and truth.
Everything you quote was based on that master salesman, Paul. Well, Acts might have been Luke.
But let's deconstruct this. How is it any different that we are told we don't need to actually see miracles anymore than Joseph Smith saying that since he used his seer stones, no one needs to see the actual golden tablets that he 'translated' from to get the Book of Mormon? How is it different from Mohammed saying the Arch Angel Gabriel came and visited him to deliver the Koran? How is it different from Bahá'u'lláh claiming to have the final revelation of the unity of man or his compatriot Siyyid MÃrzá `AlÃ-Muḥammad claiming to be the redeemer foretold in the Koran?
All of those started religious sects. All claim they are the Truth. None can back it up with real historical or physical evidence. So yes, let's have real proof in real time. If Ahab could be shown Baal is not as powerful as Yahweh, then let's see it today.
Absolutely NOT!. Fear casts out love and God IS love. Love casts out all fear. There is no place for fear in a relationship with God, period. That is a satanic concept designed to ensure a lack of connection with God.
"The fear of god" was always presented to me as "reverential awe", not some sort of terror. To fear god is to respect him. So when Viz says "you should fear god" I hear "you should respect god". Of course one would have to establish god's existence and have some form of communication conducive to an actual relationship before there could be either respect or disrespect afforded to him.
I do think the common English meaning of "fear" has been leveraged by Christianity though, so when Viz says "you should fear god" (especially in the context he was speaking) I suspect he really DOES mean that one should be worried about what god could do to you ... or as Jesus himself is supposed to have said, "fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell". So your critique is still valid. I suspect my sub-group within fundamentalism was trying to soften the rough edges of what it means to fear god, but their efforts were not entirely justified by scripture.
"The fear of god" was always presented to me as "reverential awe", not some sort of terror. To fear god is to respect him. So when Viz says "you should fear god" I hear "you should respect god". Of course one would have to establish god's existence and have some form of communication conducive to an actual relationship before there could be either respect or disrespect afforded to him.
I do think the common English meaning of "fear" has been leveraged by Christianity though, so when Viz says "you should fear god" (especially in the context he was speaking) I suspect he really DOES mean that one should be worried about what god could do to you ... or as Jesus himself is supposed to have said, "fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell". So your critique is still valid. I suspect my sub-group within fundamentalism was trying to soften the rough edges of what it means to fear god, but their efforts were not entirely justified by scripture.
It seems like your fundamentalist group was much less "fire and brimstone" than most of them. Or at least, your group was less "fire and brimstone" than mine. Maybe that's why you had less difficulty getting out of it.
"The fear of god" was always presented to me as "reverential awe", not some sort of terror. To fear god is to respect him. So when Viz says "you should fear god" I hear "you should respect god". Of course one would have to establish god's existence and have some form of communication conducive to an actual relationship before there could be either respect or disrespect afforded to him.
I do think the common English meaning of "fear" has been leveraged by Christianity though, so when Viz says "you should fear god" (especially in the context he was speaking) I suspect he really DOES mean that one should be worried about what god could do to you ... or as Jesus himself is supposed to have said, "fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell". So your critique is still valid. I suspect my sub-group within fundamentalism was trying to soften the rough edges of what it means to fear god, but their efforts were not entirely justified by scripture.
I was told the fear of God was to fear displeasing him.
Absolutely NOT!. Fear casts out love and God IS love. Love casts out all fear. There is no place for fear in a relationship with God, period. That is a satanic concept designed to ensure a lack of connection with God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100
Are your beliefs not based on the Bible?
Yes they are, but they are intelligently based using the revelations of Christ, not blindly accepting everything in it. Fear of God was the beginning of wisdom for our primitive barbarian ancestors, not the end of wisdom.
Personally, I believe that anyone who doesn't worship the Giant Extradimensional Space Crabs* will be cast into the eternal lake of boiling garlic butter sauce after they die.
*the true creators of the universe and all life on planet earth
Yes they are, but they are intelligently based using the revelations of Christ, not blindly accepting everything in it. Fear of God was the beginning of wisdom for our primitive barbarian ancestors, not the end of wisdom.
So fearing God and keeping His commandments is no longer the whole duty of man, in your opinion?
So, christians, what about using this same technique to prove your god exists. What task do you suggest we use?
First question. How can you or anyone else be saved if God is proven?
God only answers requests from His chosen prophets to that extent because they are chosen to be God's eye-witnesses. Other humans will have to put faith to believe or not.
It seems you have a lot of questions you make use to attack Christianity. However most of those questions are with answers which your intelligence may fail to reach. Those questions are only your own stumbling block for you to fail to see the truth of God. In the end, you are a victim of your own low IQ.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,937,486 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkins
First question. How can you or anyone else be saved if God is proven?
God only answers requests from His chosen prophets to that extent because they are chosen to be God's eye-witnesses. Other humans will have to put faith to believe or not.
It seems you have a lot of questions you make use to attack Christianity. However most of those questions are with answers which your intelligence may fail to reach. Those questions are only your own stumbling block for you to fail to see the truth of God. In the end, you are a victim of your own low IQ.
Translation:
Drink the koolaid. It's good for you. And if that fails, insult, as that is the best way to indulge in an intellectual discussion. Sort of like a trump-anzee.
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