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Countries like Sweden or Japan have a peaceful society because they enjoy a deeply engrained cultural identity. People are more likely to take care of their neighbor when you are part of a community. The US does not. People like yourself apparently can only see the harm in religion and ignore the good.
People are more likely to take care of their neighbors when they are allowed to put their neighbors first. Christianity, of course, requires its adherants to put God first at all times and in all things.
Any religious concept or belief system that puts an absent, invisible God first above the lives and fates of fellow human beings has nothing but rot and selfishness at its core.
It's no coincidence that the most religious areas of the United States do the least amount legally possible to help the poor, the sick, the disabled, and the elderly. The social safety net south of the Mason-Dixon is largely abysmal.
In truth, religious leaders have no interest in seeing the most vulnerable Americans being given a meaningful helping hand. I don't mean the trivial hand-outs one receives from a church charity drive or the often dirty, unsafe, and extremely public homeless shelters where 100 people are crammed into a small church gymnasium to sleep on fold-out cots. I'm talking about large, life-changing help that only government programs can offer.
Strange, isn't it, how those who scream the loudest about being Christian are usually the ones voting in politicians who want to cut and slash social programs in favor of increased military spending and constructing and idiotic wall to keep out immigrants. Strange how Christians in the Bible Belt lean toward a more fascistic nation whereby a staggering amount of money is spent on warfare while next to nothing is spent on its own citizens.
Actually, it's not so strange ... is it. Because everyone knows, especially southern Christians, that the more downtrodden, the more desperate, the more hungry, the more sick, the more afraid you are, the better the chance that you'll reach out for that illusory life preserver known as religion and God.
Religious -- and even some political -- leaders just do not have an interest in improving the lives of American citizens when doing so might remove the need for God.
In Texas some years back, the Republican political platform for public school education stated in no uncertain terms that they wanted to abolish the teaching of critical thinking and higher-order thinking skills as these skills posed a direct threat to *ahem* "traditional belief systems." Yeah, nice euphemism, right? Because obviously "traditional belief systems" was referring to religion.
This education platform shows beyond doubt that right-wing politicians are doing their leveled best to try and protect religious belief even to the point of deliberately dumbing down America's youth. If they're willing to protect religion in that way, it takes very little imagination to know they would think nothing of keeping people impoverished, sick, afraid, and desperate in order to maintain the high degree of religiosity this nation possesses.
And why not? This is precisely the same trick right-wing imams use in the Middle East to keep entire populations faithful to Allah.
Countries like Sweden or Japan have a peaceful society because they enjoy a deeply engrained cultural identity. People are more likely to take care of their neighbor when you are part of a community. The US does not. People like yourself apparently can only see the harm in religion and ignore the good.
I might disagree with you on just about everything else, but these are words worth repeating
In truth, religious leaders have no interest in seeing the most vulnerable Americans being given a meaningful helping hand. I don't mean the trivial hand-outs one receives from a church charity drive or the often dirty, unsafe, and extremely public homeless shelters where 100 people are crammed into a small church gymnasium to sleep on fold-out cots. I'm talking about large, life-changing help that only government programs can offer.
Strange, isn't it, how those who scream the loudest about being Christian are usually the ones voting in politicians who want to cut and slash social programs in favor of increased military spending and constructing and idiotic wall to keep out immigrants. Strange how Christians in the Bible Belt lean toward a more fascistic nation whereby a staggering amount of money is spent on warfare while next to nothing is spent on its own citizens.
Actually, it's not so strange ... is it. Because everyone knows, especially southern Christians, that the more downtrodden, the more desperate, the more hungry, the more sick, the more afraid you are, the better the chance that you'll reach out for that illusory life preserver known as religion and God.
Religious -- and even some political -- leaders just do not have an interest in improving the lives of American citizens when doing so might remove the need for God.
Indeed.
In my former sect, the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod, pastors regularly spoke out against wealth and prosperity that could lead people away from "their need for God." Misfortune was seen as "God's way of bringing people back to Him."
People are more likely to take care of their neighbors when they are allowed to put their neighbors first. Christianity, of course, requires its adherants to put God first at all times and in all things.
Any religious concept or belief system that puts an absent, invisible God first above the lives and fates of fellow human beings has nothing but rot and selfishness at its core.
Such a perspective only shows an inability to look at the bigger picture. All our needs and suffering in this realm is finite in comparison to eternity. Spiritual needs are far more important than the physical ones because the physical body is going to die anyways. The spirit lives on. We are to put God first because He will always guide us on the path of righteous. Man does a pretty lousy job on our own when it comes to moral decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
It's no coincidence that the most religious areas of the United States do the least amount legally possible to help the poor, the sick, the disabled, and the elderly. The social safety net south of the Mason-Dixon is largely abysmal.
In truth, religious leaders have no interest in seeing the most vulnerable Americans being given a meaningful helping hand. I don't mean the trivial hand-outs one receives from a church charity drive or the often dirty, unsafe, and extremely public homeless shelters where 100 people are crammed into a small church gymnasium to sleep on fold-out cots. I'm talking about large, life-changing help that only government programs can offer.
You are living in a fantasy world. The government can not tax people out of poverty. Stealing money from one person's paycheck to pay another only pushes the hard work citizen towards poverty. The most religious areas of the US are also among the most poor and people are sick of seeing their paycheck get chopped up. Even God doesn't want forced charity. He wants people to give with a cheerful heart. Ironically, the government programs only create a vicious cycle where people are so busy working to provide for their family that they don't make time for the needs of the local community or church. Give people more of their paycheck back, and you'll be giving them more free time and more financially ability to help local charities. You're flat out wrong that religious leaders don't want to truly help people, but a lot of people don't want to help themselves. Erin Moran is recent example. Supposely, several of her Hollywood friends desperately tried everything they could to help her overcome her problems, but she wouldn't change her ways. Also, I have a friend in Chicago who tells me that the black youth there just have zero interest in education as a way to improve their lot in life. They rather just deal drugs and get easy money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Strange, isn't it, how those who scream the loudest about being Christian are usually the ones voting in politicians who want to cut and slash social programs in favor of increased military spending and constructing and idiotic wall to keep out immigrants. Strange how Christians in the Bible Belt lean toward a more fascistic nation whereby a staggering amount of money is spent on warfare while next to nothing is spent on its own citizens.
Actually, it's not so strange ... is it. Because everyone knows, especially southern Christians, that the more downtrodden, the more desperate, the more hungry, the more sick, the more afraid you are, the better the chance that you'll reach out for that illusory life preserver known as religion and God.
Or maybe it's because we don't trust the government as good stewards of our money. Look at any government program, and I guarantee you that there is a level of wasteful spending and even corruption because there is little oversight. We believe it's up to the individual to directly help their community. Plus you are flat out ignoring the many Christian organizations that work to take care of the needy on a massive scale. Mercy Ships is one example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
Religious -- and even some political -- leaders just do not have an interest in improving the lives of American citizens when doing so might remove the need for God.
In Texas some years back, the Republican political platform for public school education stated in no uncertain terms that they wanted to abolish the teaching of critical thinking and higher-order thinking skills as these skills posed a direct threat to *ahem* "traditional belief systems." Yeah, nice euphemism, right? Because obviously "traditional belief systems" was referring to religion.
This education platform shows beyond doubt that right-wing politicians are doing their leveled best to try and protect religious belief even to the point of deliberately dumbing down America's youth. If they're willing to protect religion in that way, it takes very little imagination to know they would think nothing of keeping people impoverished, sick, afraid, and desperate in order to maintain the high degree of religiosity this nation possesses.
And why not? This is precisely the same trick right-wing imams use in the Middle East to keep entire populations faithful to Allah.
And how is teaching as fact (when it is still unproven) that we descended from primates really showing critical thinking? It is just as close minded as the religious mindset that you bash.
Such a perspective only shows an inability to look at the bigger picture. All our needs and suffering in this realm is finite in comparison to eternity. Spiritual needs are far more important than the physical ones because the physical body is going to die anyways. The spirit lives on. We are to put God first because He will always guide us on the path of righteous. Man does a pretty lousy job on our own when it comes to moral decisions.
So, in other words, you are perfectly fine with putting your God above those who are suffering and in need. You just proved Shirina's point, Jeff. The "rot" you speak of comes from people like you, not us "godless heathens".
But hey, all you have to do is prove that this "spirit realm" exists, and I will be right there with you. Until then, it is nothing more than wishful thinking. So, the thinking men and women among us will continue to help living, breathing humans we know are real. We will continue to help people in the "physical realm", since we know for a fact that is real.
So, in other words, you are perfectly fine with putting your God above those who are suffering and in need. You just proved Shirina's point, Jeff. The "rot" you speak of comes from people like you, not us "godless heathens".
Well either you are so desperate to make Christians look bad that you throw out this trap scenario or you are only capable of binary thinking (like the need to arrange things in order)
In other words, why can I do both at the same time? I'm certainly capable of seeking God and seeking to help others at the same time. If binary thinking can only understanding seeking God in physical actions then in that situation, I'm quite confident God would not be mad at me if I needed to help a neighbor before my bible study or going to church. The real rot is from atheists who promote a hopeless society that leads to more and more sucides including in those "happy" atheist countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
But hey, all you have to do is prove that this "spirit realm" exists, and I will be right there with you. Until then, it is nothing more than wishful thinking. So, the thinking men and women among us will continue to help living, breathing humans we know are real. We will continue to help people in the "physical realm", since we know for a fact that is real.
If you believe the only thing that is real is whatever you can experience with your senses then your mind is too closed to ever accept evidence at face value.
Well either you are so desperate to make Christians look bad that you throw out this trap scenario or you are only capable of binary thinking (like the need to arrange things in order)
In other words, why can I do both at the same time? I'm certainly capable of seeking God and seeking to help others at the same time. If binary thinking can only understanding seeking God in physical actions then in that situation, I'm quite confident God would not be mad at me if I needed to help a neighbor before my bible study or going to church. The real rot is from atheists who promote a hopeless society that leads to more and more sucides including in those "happy" atheist countries.
How is it a trap? Either you care more for your God, or you care more for people. You can't care "more" for both of them. You freely admit your unproven God is more important than real life people. Now, you can love your God and help people at the same time, but you can't love God more than living, breathing people, and be a good person. Sorry, but telling people they matter less than the certain flavor of God you believe in is not spreading the love, Jeff.
How do atheists promote a hopeless society? How do atheists lead to more suicides? Fact is, some people can't handle life, and they choose suicide. Maybe more of them are atheists than not, I wouldn't know, but if you would think a little outside of your tiny box, you may see that it doesn't matter either way. If the people are unhappy enough to go to those lengths, the church wouldn't help them. Not to mention, there are TONS of reasons that could lead to suicide. Like getting bullied by religious peers for being gay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
If you believe the only thing that is real is whatever you can experience with your senses then your mind is too closed to ever accept evidence at face value.
Jeff, I have explained to you before, I am not an atheist. I don't discount things outside of the physical being real, but I am not going to live my life for something that can't be proven. It is a waste of life. I will live my life as I do now: helping people, and living life to the fullest. If your so-called God wants to let me burn for being a good person who doesn't believe in him, then he has a serious character flaw.
I'm guessing it would look much the same with exception we would not be hearing religious people boasting of financial blessings, while some child is being abducted, raped, abused or is starving to death, because God was too busy with trivial matters.
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