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In my former sect, the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod, pastors regularly spoke out against wealth and prosperity that could lead people away from "their need for God." Misfortune was seen as "God's way of bringing people back to Him."
That's a Jehovah's Witness thing too. If one of us that leaves doesn't fall flat on our faces it is said Satan is making it easy on us so we have no reason to return.
Such a perspective only shows an inability to look at the bigger picture. All our needs and suffering in this realm is finite in comparison to eternity. Spiritual needs are far more important than the physical ones because the physical body is going to die anyways. The spirit lives on. We are to put God first because He will always guide us on the path of righteous. Man does a pretty lousy job on our own when it comes to moral decisions.
You are living in a fantasy world. The government can not tax people out of poverty. Stealing money from one person's paycheck to pay another only pushes the hard work citizen towards poverty. The most religious areas of the US are also among the most poor and people are sick of seeing their paycheck get chopped up. Even God doesn't want forced charity. He wants people to give with a cheerful heart. Ironically, the government programs only create a vicious cycle where people are so busy working to provide for their family that they don't make time for the needs of the local community or church. Give people more of their paycheck back, and you'll be giving them more free time and more financially ability to help local charities. You're flat out wrong that religious leaders don't want to truly help people, but a lot of people don't want to help themselves. Erin Moran is recent example. Supposely, several of her Hollywood friends desperately tried everything they could to help her overcome her problems, but she wouldn't change her ways. Also, I have a friend in Chicago who tells me that the black youth there just have zero interest in education as a way to improve their lot in life. They rather just deal drugs and get easy money.
Or maybe it's because we don't trust the government as good stewards of our money. Look at any government program, and I guarantee you that there is a level of wasteful spending and even corruption because there is little oversight. We believe it's up to the individual to directly help their community. Plus you are flat out ignoring the many Christian organizations that work to take care of the needy on a massive scale. Mercy Ships is one example.
And how is teaching as fact (when it is still unproven) that we descended from primates really showing critical thinking? It is just as close minded as the religious mindset that you bash.
I'll leave the political stuff to Shirina, but the beginning suggestion that it's good we should all live in misery if it means that we all embrace religion.
Well, that is a lousy philosophy, and I shall continue to urge that making the best life for everyone now is far more important than regarding it as something to be endured in the hope of a better second one.
And the ending - that we descended from primates is on all the evidence, true and the Genesis account is on all evidence false. And any education board that wants to abolish intelligence in orfer to continue duping the underage into faith should be dismissed.
That's a Jehovah's Witness thing too. If one of us that leaves doesn't fall flat on our faces it is said Satan is making it easy on us so we have no reason to return.
They always can find a rationalization for their delusion. But it doesn't matter. They will have to think for themselves. It is the ones who have reasoned their way out of the Big Lie need help and support.
How is it a trap? Either you care more for your God, or you care more for people. You can't care "more" for both of them. You freely admit your unproven God is more important than real life people. Now, you can love your God and help people at the same time, but you can't love God more than living, breathing people, and be a good person. Sorry, but telling people they matter less than the certain flavor of God you believe in is not spreading the love, Jeff.
How do atheists promote a hopeless society? How do atheists lead to more suicides? Fact is, some people can't handle life, and they choose suicide. Maybe more of them are atheists than not, I wouldn't know, but if you would think a little outside of your tiny box, you may see that it doesn't matter either way. If the people are unhappy enough to go to those lengths, the church wouldn't help them. Not to mention, there are TONS of reasons that could lead to suicide. Like getting bullied by religious peers for being gay.
Jeff, I have explained to you before, I am not an atheist. I don't discount things outside of the physical being real, but I am not going to live my life for something that can't be proven. It is a waste of life. I will live my life as I do now: helping people, and living life to the fullest. If your so-called God wants to let me burn for being a good person who doesn't believe in him, then he has a serious character flaw.
Tracie Harris in her mustwatch you tube on Christian family values, pointed up the idea: 'God says "why do you love your children more than me?"
It is regarded as not only excusable, not even just, right and good, but Putting "God" ahead of everything else is a reason to let the needy go hang and give all the attention, respect and money, by all accounts - to religion. Sorry - I mean "God". I'll leave it to Shirina to point out that religion actually gets little of it, but Right wing Republicans in power positions, pocket most of it.
How is it a trap? Either you care more for your God, or you care more for people. You can't care "more" for both of them. You freely admit your unproven God is more important than real life people. Now, you can love your God and help people at the same time, but you can't love God more than living, breathing people, and be a good person. Sorry, but telling people they matter less than the certain flavor of God you believe in is not spreading the love, Jeff.
Why can't we love all things equally? That's like asking a parent which child do they love more. It is most certainly a trap question because if I say I love people more than God then you will say I'm not being a true Christian. I get it, you apparently think my faith of love and forgiveness is garbage. I think that's pretty warped thinking, but whatever. If we seek God first, He transforms us to love and care for all people so by seeking God, you are only loving people more than someone who shows love within their own sinful flesh. The flesh is weak and very selfish. Any acts of charity by an unsaved person would have a selfish motive at the core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
How do atheists promote a hopeless society? How do atheists lead to more suicides? Fact is, some people can't handle life, and they choose suicide. Maybe more of them are atheists than not, I wouldn't know, but if you would think a little outside of your tiny box, you may see that it doesn't matter either way. If the people are unhappy enough to go to those lengths, the church wouldn't help them. Not to mention, there are TONS of reasons that could lead to suicide. Like getting bullied by religious peers for being gay.
There is no hope in atheism. None. Life becomes nothing more than a sick cosmic game of chance. Even if you do happen to find contempt and happiness in life, it can be snatched away in an instant. And then your atheist friends can only say, wow, sorry, bad hand, sucks to be you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
Jeff, I have explained to you before, I am not an atheist. I don't discount things outside of the physical being real, but I am not going to live my life for something that can't be proven. It is a waste of life. I will live my life as I do now: helping people, and living life to the fullest. If your so-called God wants to let me burn for being a good person who doesn't believe in him, then he has a serious character flaw.
Then if I were in your shoes, I would be beating down the bush, investigating any evidence, spending time with hospice nurses, doctors, desperately looking for proof if there was even the slighest chance that Christianity is true. Just because in your mind you think you are a good person does not change the reality that you are on the path that leads to death. God determines a good person by their heart, not their physical actions. One of the greatest joys a Christian can experience is to surrender to God and let His transforming power of the Holy Spirit lead us to forgive those who have wronged us. An unsaved "good" person would desire revenge instead.
Why can't we love all things equally? That's like asking a parent which child do they love more. It is most certainly a trap question because if I say I love people more than God then you will say I'm not being a true Christian. I get it, you apparently think my faith of love and forgiveness is garbage. I think that's pretty warped thinking, but whatever. If we seek God first, He transforms us to love and care for all people so by seeking God, you are only loving people more than someone who shows love within their own sinful flesh. The flesh is weak and very selfish. Any acts of charity by an unsaved person would have a selfish motive at the core.
There is no hope in atheism. None. Life becomes nothing more than a sick cosmic game of chance. Even if you do happen to find contempt and happiness in life, it can be snatched away in an instant. And then your atheist friends can only say, wow, sorry, bad hand, sucks to be you.
Then if I were in your shoes, I would be beating down the bush, investigating any evidence, spending time with hospice nurses, doctors, desperately looking for proof if there was even the slighest chance that Christianity is true. Just because in your mind you think you are a good person does not change the reality that you are on the path that leads to death. God determines a good person by their heart, not their physical actions. One of the greatest joys a Christian can experience is to surrender to God and let His transforming power of the Holy Spirit lead us to forgive those who have wronged us. An unsaved "good" person would desire revenge instead.
Read it folks. This pathetic, primitive and superstitious mind-set is why I despise religions.
Why can't we love all things equally? That's like asking a parent which child do they love more. It is most certainly a trap question because if I say I love people more than God then you will say I'm not being a true Christian. I get it, you apparently think my faith of love and forgiveness is garbage. I think that's pretty warped thinking, but whatever. If we seek God first, He transforms us to love and care for all people so by seeking God, you are only loving people more than someone who shows love within their own sinful flesh. The flesh is weak and very selfish. Any acts of charity by an unsaved person would have a selfish motive at the core.
You could love things equally. That isn't what you said though, is it? You love God more than people. No, I don't think your faith "of love and forgiveness" is garbage, because your faith is not one of love and forgiveness. You show nothing of the sort.
Let me ask you a question, and please, answer it, and don't dodge it.
Who is more selfish?
A) A person who helps people because they will get brownie points with God, therefore assuring themselves a place in Heaven.
or
B) A person who helps people expecting no reward.
I, and the large majority of other people, would say B. You are A.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
There is no hope in atheism. None. Life becomes nothing more than a sick cosmic game of chance. Even if you do happen to find contempt and happiness in life, it can be snatched away in an instant. And then your atheist friends can only say, wow, sorry, bad hand, sucks to be you.
So you are religious because it makes you feel good? Some people do heroine to feel good, you have religion. I am not seeing much of a difference, except the heroine addict will die sooner. If that is the only reason you have for religion, then that is just sad. Some of us are big boys and girls, and don't need to delude ourselves to keep from feeling worthless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Then if I were in your shoes, I would be beating down the bush, investigating any evidence, spending time with hospice nurses, doctors, desperately looking for proof if there was even the slighest chance that Christianity is true. Just because in your mind you think you are a good person does not change the reality that you are on the path that leads to death. God determines a good person by their heart, not their physical actions. One of the greatest joys a Christian can experience is to surrender to God and let His transforming power of the Holy Spirit lead us to forgive those who have wronged us. An unsaved "good" person would desire revenge instead.
Jeff, this has been explained to you numerous times. Most of us non-believers HAVE "beat down the bush". Hell, most of us were religious at one point. Your continued ignorance on this point is baffling.
Secondly, I don't believe in every little thing that could possibly, maybe be true. If I did, I would have to believe in all sorts of gods to cover my bases. That is just not logical.
Third, is it impossible for a non-believer to have a good heart? If so, you are proving how naïve you truly are. Is it impossible for your supposed "all powerful God" to see whether a non-believer has a good heart or not? If so, he isn't all powerful. If not, then why the need to follow religion at all? Or does he just burn all non-believers, regardless of how good they are? If so, he is a tyrant and bully, and is not worth my time. If not, then why the need to follow religion at all?
Why can't we love all things equally? That's like asking a parent which child do they love more. It is most certainly a trap question because if I say I love people more than God then you will say I'm not being a true Christian. I get it, you apparently think my faith of love and forgiveness is garbage. I think that's pretty warped thinking, but whatever. If we seek God first, He transforms us to love and care for all people so by seeking God, you are only loving people more than someone who shows love within their own sinful flesh. The flesh is weak and very selfish. Any acts of charity by an unsaved person would have a selfish motive at the core.
There is no hope in atheism. None. Life becomes nothing more than a sick cosmic game of chance. Even if you do happen to find contempt and happiness in life, it can be snatched away in an instant. And then your atheist friends can only say, wow, sorry, bad hand, sucks to be you.
Then if I were in your shoes, I would be beating down the bush, investigating any evidence, spending time with hospice nurses, doctors, desperately looking for proof if there was even the slighest chance that Christianity is true. Just because in your mind you think you are a good person does not change the reality that you are on the path that leads to death. God determines a good person by their heart, not their physical actions. One of the greatest joys a Christian can experience is to surrender to God and let His transforming power of the Holy Spirit lead us to forgive those who have wronged us. An unsaved "good" person would desire revenge instead.
The problem is, Jeff, that you seem so angry and miserable and full of disdain for other people who don't believe as you do. How exactly is someone supposed to believe in this "great joy" you speak of when you don't seem to have any yourself? You just sound mean.
The problem is, Jeff, that you seem so angry and miserable and full of disdain for other people who don't believe as you do. How exactly is someone supposed to believe in this "great joy" you speak of when you don't seem to have any yourself? You just sound mean.
It's because he's so persecuted you know. Poor soul!
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