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I hope you aren't concerned about its appropriateness for this thread because I have no objection to alternative views, Pleroo.
It should not be necessary to start a new thread, nate.
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Originally Posted by nateswift
Oh, I realize that. I just thought Pleroo might be more comfortable doing it that way and I'd hate to miss it for any reason.
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Originally Posted by Arach Angle
yeah, post it pleroo.
any alternative to having to following a religion is welcome. its about helping people to believe using common sense and reason. which you have an abundance of.
What's that saying... something about, "Better to stay silent and allow people to think you a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt"?
Actually, life hasn't been conducive this past week to me sitting with it and making sure I say what I want to, and I didn't want to rush it. These aren't my ideas, just something that I've heard that resonates with me, and I'm still in the processing stage. Also, you science-y people may very well squash it and I'm not sure I'm ready for it to be squashed.
Hence my distress and lack of spiritual fortitude and the use of the "seeming" adjective.
I'd have to say that the point is about being directly responsible for taking a life. I'm not going to say a THING about catch and release. I am not so reluctant to be so responsible, though I do have a great deal of respect for life, I also recognize that it is fleeting and "who dies this year is quit for the next." Where is the balance?
I will say that I was enchanted with the conversation the "bushman" had with the spirit of the animal he had just killed in The Gods Must Be Crazy.
What's that saying... something about, "Better to stay silent and allow people to think you a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt"?
Actually, life hasn't been conducive this past week to me sitting with it and making sure I say what I want to, and I didn't want to rush it. These aren't my ideas, just something that I've heard that resonates with me, and I'm still in the processing stage. Also, you science-y people may very well squash it and I'm not sure I'm ready for it to be squashed.
take your time pleroo.
I often wonder why some believers don't talk about what they believe but are happy to rip away at others. I have the biosphere as life as what they are feeling. Moderator cut: Misrepresentation of Matadora's viewpoint removed. Others have souling stuff. gld his pantheism and mystic that field. all reasonable alternatives to literal religion.
You're in good company of "ripped to shreds people". Just keep in mind who does the ripping. We often stand up covered in blood without a scratch on us.
I think anything that has roots in observations is a valid counter offering to literal religion stuff. 'bout the only thing that I disapprove of is treating everything as a nail . there just isn't that many nails. And covering up and shunning science because some atheist are down right scared is just flat stupid to me. They haven't been able to grab a hold of their gut wrenching, life altering, event and they are going to be sure we all know about it.
Last edited by mensaguy; 09-21-2017 at 12:09 PM..
Reason: Moderator edit per Matadora's viewpoint.
What's that saying... something about, "Better to stay silent and allow people to think you a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt"?
You have already earned your bona fides as an insightful intellect, Pleroo. Nothing you present will alter that.
Quote:
Actually, life hasn't been conducive this past week to me sitting with it and making sure I say what I want to, and I didn't want to rush it. These aren't my ideas, just something that I've heard that resonates with me, and I'm still in the processing stage. Also, you science-y people may very well squash it and I'm not sure I'm ready for it to be squashed.
No one expects you to be sciencey, Pleroo, just extremely bright and insightful. If it resonates with you, it cannot be awful, IMO.
I typed up a post earlier this morning ........ and accidentally deleted the entire thing.
But my little one and I spent some time being super heroes and saving the world, so I think I'm sufficiently energized to attempt it again.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD
...To summarize and repeat my view of things Christian, I believe that Christ came to fix a deficiency in US as a species. We were NOT achieving anything remotely like agape love for life or one another. Jesus was our "designated hitter" and He achieved a Grand Slam demonstrating pure agape love under the most egregious circumstances even up to His death. He told us that God IS Spirit and that God IS agape love so God's Holy Spirit IS agape love. Christ brought God's Holy Spirit of agape love to His HUMAN consciousness. His teachings about the TRUE NATURE of God were so contrary to what our ancestors' religious leaders believed about God that they rejected Him and demanded His crucifixion.
...
There was never any price to pay. There was no atonement. There was a need for our species to achieve "at-one-ment" with God. To do that our species had to evolve spiritually enough to attain "perfect resonance" with God's consciousness (Holy Spirit of agape love) in a HUMAN consciousness which NONE of us were capable of achieving (sin = missing the mark). Our species would have remained eternally separated from God because of our sins (missing the mark). But by the time of Jesus, the "schoolmaster stage" under the Law using fear of God as motivation had produced our species' ability for self-control of our baser urges - the beginning of wisdom. Jesus pointed out that now the “fields were ripe for the harvest” and capable of being motivated by agape love instead of fear...
This ^^^^ (the idea that humanity was separated from God and needing fixing) is what I'm picking on.
My view of God for some time has been panentheistic in nature. Essentially, I saw God as the foundational singular consciousness from which all other consciousness have been birthed: God as the cosmic parent, in other words, and we as it's offspring. Our purpose, as I saw it, was to mature into "resonance" with our parent and somehow this physical experience was a necessary part of that. So, the need for a "savior" (someone to bridge the gap and heal the disharmony we create in our immaturity) wasn't out of the realm of possibility for me.
A still panentheistic, but new (for me -- it wouldn't surprise me if this is old news to many) concept, however, is this:
God is not a singular personality, but rather a collective of consciousness. Each singular consciousness within the collective can choose to become "physically focused" as it desires, and has done so numerous times. You and I, and all life forms from the least to the most complex, then, are each a singular consciousness within God, a part of which is physically focused in these bodies, while the larger part of us remains in the non-physical as God [this, to me, would be the Christian concept of "Christ within"].
The reason God wants/needs to be physically focused is that God, being eternal, is always expanding. No expansion would mean death. The physical experience is vital to that expansion because it offers a higher degree of contrast than the non-physical. As many of us who are physically focused at any given point in time are sort of explorers who came forward in order to use the contrast to propel us forward in our evolution and diversity.
Although the creative "energy" of God/love is always flowing toward us when we are physically focused, we are often out of alignment with it [pinched off]. This inhibits us from fully experiencing the expansion that we are creating in the here and now, which is what makes our physical experience varying degrees of enjoyment to suffering. But, we aren't fundamentally broken/in need of fixing. Once we leave these physical bodies behind, we will immediately be in harmony with who we really are again. At that point we will see and experience the collective expansion we are co-creating from the broader non-physical perspective.
Since the "Christ within" us IS God -- and that is who we really are in the non-physical -- this time spent physically focused obviously wouldn't be for the purpose of maturing in order to come into harmony with God. We have a felt sense of separation [and to the degree that we do not overcome that by coming into harmony, it's gonna suck as long as we are here] but it is an illusion created by the physical. Neither God as the collective, nor as our singular non-physical consciousness, is ever judging or condemning us/each other for how we live these physical lives. The focus on us in our physical manifestation is always one of love, appreciation, guidance, acceptance of where we are at, and awareness of what we are creating through our experience of contrast.
No real separation: therefore, no need for savior. So Jesus, if a literal historical figure, was simply a physically focused member of the collective, who in some way had a better grasp of his true nature and purpose (in that lifetime, at least) and attempted to share that knowledge with others.
No real separation: therefore, no need for savior. So Jesus, if a literal historical figure, was simply a physically focused member of the collective, who in some way had a better grasp of his true nature and purpose and attempted to share that knowledge with others.
Okay, squash away.
Not gonna squash.
I share some similar thoughts, though they diverge here and there. I absolutely agree there's no need of a savior. As I've mentioned a time or 10, I'm leaning towards a similar sort of cosmic consciousness = God scenario. But my sense is, it's not aware of itself as a singular entity. Because it isn't. It's an ever-expanding conglomeration of consciousnesses gathered from every sentient being in the universe.
As the universe expands, as more lifeforms come into being in various galaxies, the CC grows. Since I'm a semi-elderly fart, I'll use an old-fashioned analogy: The CC is like an old telephone switchboard and we can plug in or out. Few can do so at will. I have a hunch some do during sleep, meditation, or other altered states of conciousness. And I suspect/hope we all plug back in after death.
Perhaps to be re-routed elsewhere.
Speculating is fun.
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We often stand up covered in blood without a scratch on us. 
